Not really.
Ah, thank you Nyar.
Here we have a few options when both parties are equally terrible for leadership options.
We have the Lib Dems, Green Party etcā¦ which were always the parties for the ānone of the aboveā position.
Which is where I tend to vote as I canāt stand the main two parties.
But currently there is a large surge for Reform UK, which appears to be a right wing party.
Iām pretty concerned of late, how many countries are steering toward right wing politics/parties and nationalism is becoming more prevalent.
These things are cyclical, but nationalism and nationalistic ideologies often feed on and exaggerate fear, if you can throw in ignorance itās a powerful motivator. Fear of the unknown is behind almost every negative stereotype Iāve ever seen created, and this seems like bread and butter to extreme ideologies both left and right.
The sheeple are easy to manipulate, and sadly despite a great deal of hope that the internet age would yield a more well informed and educated populace, instead vast social media platforms are the perfect medium for peddling mis-information.
If we all thought rationally then we wouldnāt have needed to create methods like logic in the first place, the inference being we naturally tend to think irrationally, I wonder if like religion it isnāt some sort of defence mechanism, a stabilising habit that helps us survive, when the truth might be, shall we sayā¦less comforting? There is comfort in group think, it is easy, it lends cohesion, it can take the pressure off individuals to āwork it all outā. As we age change becomes less and less appealing, and so most peopleās political views shift to more conservative ideas, with an increasingly ageing population this might explain why politics in general appears (in those countries with an ageing population) to be trending towards the right.
Of course in the UK Labour had a very long run at it, and the length of time the Conservatives have been in power seems to match that, cyclical you see? It might be indicative of the lack of new ideas, in an age when change appears faster than ever before, global travel means multiculturalism is a simple fact of life, those who treat it like a choice to be made are simply tapping into fear of the unknown.
Parenthetically there is research that suggests it is innate in us to modify our thinking to match that of the group, even when we initially know we are right. Evolving in small groups where cooperation meant life or death, this is hardly surprising of course.
Quick question: Some people have been known to call me cynical, even slightly depressing, but I think Iām a delight, should I start a poll, or just go with a comforting unknown? 
As you were, theyāre clearly madder than a box of frogs, Iām obviously a delight, never in doubtā¦ 
Oh yeah, something about Trump etc etcā¦what a fuckerā¦eyeās gots ta stay on topicā¦
Did you watch all of the latest State of the Union Address?
Yes and no. We do have other parties, but none of them has a snowballās chance in hell of being elected president. There are some Independents in Congress (Bernie Sanders is a good example), but itās a non-starter in the presidential race.
Ross Perot ran as an independent in 1992, and got 19% of the vote, but he got 0 electoral votes. You have to go back to the 1912 election where Theodore Roosevelt, running as a Progressive, had any real showing in a presidential election. Teddy won 88 electoral votes (to the winnerās (Wilson) 435 votes).
The only effect a third-party candidate has on a presidential election is as a spoiler. They can take away votes from one of the two main (Democrat & Republican) candidates, and that can sometimes tip the election one way or another. Thereās a (justified) worry that Robert Kennedy, Jr., if he runs as an independent, can siphon off enough votes from Biden to throw the race to Trump in 2024. RFK Jr. is batshit crazy (heās an antivaxxer and conspiracy theory nut), but there are plenty of dimwits in this country who would vote for him.
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Iām not sure Cyber, Iāll have a search on youtube when I get a chance.
I try to avoid watching him now as I just find it sad.
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Thank you Soda, that was some excellent information!
Oh Jeez, yeah I saw RFK jr on joe rogans podcast, that was a difficult listenā¦ almost as bad as when he had on the discovery institute dipshit.
Why do you think Trump has such heavy support? Its baffelling to me.
Yes its very true, I think Britain is a prime example of thatā¦ its remarkable because if you take a moderate path, you can easily get into power in the UK.
Labour under Tony Blair promised so much, he was my first vote as an adult of voting age, i really hoped heād do well, but eventually ended up crippling the economy and led us into illegal wars for which he should be tried in the Hague for war crimes.
The Conservatives got in as an almost protest vote against Labour (i believe i voted Lib Dem then) and have since oversaw an absolute shit show during covid, and taxing the crap out of the working class.
Iām almost certain Labour will get in next election, though they two were unpopular, but the Labour leader has since started to shift away from far left wing ideological policies and become more moderate, which appeals more tk most.
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Itās baffling to any rational person.
Hereās how I categorize Trump supporters:
- Capitalists
- Cowboys
- Racists/Supremacists
- Religious Nutjobs
The Capitalists think theyāre special because of their money. They support Trump because they want lower taxes for themselves and for their corporate interests.
The Cowboys support Trump because they like guns and want few or no gun laws, and Trump panders to this.
The Racists/Supremacists support Trump because Trump is anti-immigration, supports the āLost Causeā myth by opposing renaming bases named for Confederate generals and the removal of statues honoring Confederates, and generally thinks racists are āgood peopleā.
The Religious Nutjobs support Trump because he pretends to care about religion and favors demolishing the wall of separation between church and state. They donāt seem to care that heās a thrice divorced serial womanizer who pays off prostitutes and assaults women. They donāt care that heās been indicted on 91 criminal counts, that heās defaulted on loans and frequently stiffs anyone who does work for him, that he owes half a billion dollars in legal judgments, that he totally fucked up the response to the Covid pandemic, and that he incited an insurrection. Quite the contraryāevery time Trump fucks up his supporters double down on their support.
Trump supporters tend to be rural whites who live in areas of the country that are economically depressed due to factory closures. Many of these supporters do not have college degrees and, thus, have limited mobility in the modern job market. These people have long coveted their privilege and power and resent anyone whom they perceive to be challenging this privilege and power. They want to bring this country back to what they perceive to be āthe good olā daysā, and many of them would be happy to see the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act repealed so they can return to the days of Jim Crow and segregation, with them back at the top of the pyramid of power, and everyone else second class citizens (or deported).
Trump, despite all of his faults, does understand how to pander to the fears of his supporters. Watch any Trump rally and youāll see what I mean. Trump falls squarely in the Capitalist categoryāI donāt think he gives a ratās ass about guns, religion, or any of the other things his supporters care about, but he knows what pushes their buttons and he obliges them by pretending to support these things.
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Whilst Iād imagine there is quite a number of Trump supporters that fall into that catagory, thats sad to see that all people that vote for him are instantly given quite a harsh brand.
Iām sure the vast majority are just life time republicans and irregardless of whos in the race, they have their āteamā.
Many may not support the current ideological direction of the democrats?
Funnily enough I have that issue at home, my sister and brother in law are wonderful people, truly wonderful! But are loyal conservative voters.
Whilst they would disagree with whos currently PM, perhaps even policiesā¦ they are conservativesā¦ simple as that.
I still wouldnāt brand them just because of differing views politically.
Just like millions of Germans supported Hitlerā¦
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a disagreement about what the tax percent should be for a certain bracket is politics. Rejecting the germ theory of disease during a pandemic is a crime against humanity, imo.
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Very different things, one is a politcal party, the other an indivdual.
And whilst Trump is an arsehole, he isnt even remotely comperable to Adolf Hitler.
One can also ask, why vote for hitler? Did anyone voting for him know what would happen? Massively unlikely.
Iād imagine many wanted to change from the crippled economy of Germany at the time or an escape from the treaty of Versaille etcā¦ who knows.
I sure as shit wouldnt band them all under some horrific label.
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For context before I respond, Iām no anti vaxer and have had both main vaccines, plus a booster.
Now, to the pointā¦ I believe rejecting germ theory of disease as you eloquently put it, is not a crime against humanity, rather incredibly fucking stupid.
To claim those disagreeing with vaccines or not wanting them, or even just questioning them should not be considered on par with the likes of the SS or Einzatsgrupen.
So whilst Iād stand your corner and argue for people to take the vaccine and try to get people to understand the actual scienceā¦ I believe its wrong and completely unhelpful to again be labelling people in such terms.
Its like flat earthers or moon landing deniers, do i believe they are absolute fucking morons and wrong to the highest levelā¦ absolutely!
Would i therefore conflate them with being quilty of crimes on humanity? Noā¦ theyāre just idiots and wrong.
it seems likely that many would have supported Nazism out of fear of Bolshevism, since extreme ideologies appeal to and use peopleās fears, both real and imagined. One of Trumpās more depressing traits is his fearmongering rhetoric. However I think it is a mistake to be too generic in stereotyping or demonising such a large demographic just because they hold different political views.
Part of the price of living in a free democracy is having to listen to views we might find abhorrent, and the best way to tackle bad ideas is with better ones. Probably best to leave it to the worst examples of Trumpās supporters to resort to such behaviour, and keep the moral high ground, so to speak. Speak out against prejudice, and ffs vote, never be complacent. Biden may not be at his best, but even given his age and any shortcomings, he surely has shown heās a better candidate than Trump in so many ways.
Now thatās how you oppose Trumpās rhetoric, with the facts, theyāre damning enough without any need to mirror the kind of demonising rhetoric we expect from him.
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When the leader of a country (who received ~63 million votes for the term he served during the Covid pandemic) eschews vaccinations, suggests shining light inside of people, thinks drinking disinfectant would work as a cure, withholds support for contending with the dying from states who had Governors from a different political party, set an example that large social gatherings were fine, refused to wear a mask and derided those who did, unnecessarily causing the deaths of up to 210,000 people, then that leader did indeed commit a crime against humanity.
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His supporters will brand facts as āfake newsā and his lies as āalternative factsā. The real hope here is to convince the undecidedes and the middle-of-the-road types to vote for Bidenāthereās really no hope of convincing Trumpās hardcore supporters that heās bad for them and bad for the country.
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Itās not like the flat earthers or moon landing deniers! Thereās a huge difference hereā¦ The nutty flat earthers and moon landing deniers arenāt doing anyone any harm. That canāt be said about the antivaxxers. Sure, you can say itās their decision not to get vaccinatedāif they die as a result itās their own fault. But what about their kids who are too young to make their own decisions? Or the people who canāt be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons and have to rely on herd immunity to protect them?
With the current level of vaccine denial, I would not be surprised at all if diseases, like polio, that we defeated decades ago start to make a comeback. Now that would be a crime against humanity.
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You think so? We lost around 140,000 men killed in WWII fighting Hitler. We lost over a million people to Covid, and a great many of those deaths were unnecessary and are directly connected to the actions of Trump.
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Yes, really.
You do realise germany was responsible for the direct deaths of between 15m to 31m.
And these are not people unfortunately got ill because of a pandemic, or govenement miss management of vaccines like the twat Trump.
This was a systemic massacre! 15m-31m murdered! Babies gassed to death, people experimented on and given no pain relief or medication to recoverā¦
I 100% stand by you all in berating Trump and he should have no chance of running again, but he aint no hitler, thats mental.
As someone whos family was massively affected by WW2 (my town was bombed during the blitz, family killed, my grandad fought till evacuation from dunkirk when he had to be medically discharged and so much more)ā¦ im sorry, i cannot stand how people these days equate things with nazism and hitler, its not even closeā¦ its not only not in the same ball park, its not even the same sport.
Youāll do better to get voters onside by offering better and sensible solutions, addressing their concerns and showing compassion and understandingā¦ using these throw away labels never helps.
But Iāll step away from this conversation, thatās just too daft for me.