Well. One Buddhist during the Vietnam war wanted to protest the war and the oppression of his religion by “self-immolation”.
He wasn’t hurting ANYONE!
And I mean that. True to his religion, he entered Nirodha Samapatti (the cessation of perception and feeling - the highest of the nine Buddhist meditative absorptions) and proceeded to patiently sit still in a cross legged position while his skin and hair and ligaments and organs turned to charcoal.
As an aside, how do you think that monk kept his posture so well, and burned to a crisp so patiently. I’ll tell you. He didn’t feel a thing. He was in Nirodha Samapatti.
YOu idiot! What kind of a message does that send to the people around him? To the gullible … …Like Yourself! Duhhhhh, we’re not hurting anyone, we can set ourselves on fire. YOU RETARD! And why? Because someone disagreed with you. Because you want to protest something. Quit being so frigging STUPID!
Pain is subjective and very individual. As a martial artist, I have been bashed in the body about as hard as anyone can be bashed in the body with solid shin kicks. I have continued fighting with broken fingers, toes, teeth, and ribs. (not to mention crunched nuts). How? Training. No magical state of anything. The same kind of training that allows a boxer, who I envy with amazement, to stand up against an opponent for 15 rounds and get punched in the face. It’s utter and complete insanity but it is still just training. Nothing magical. Nothing special that Buddhism has above other mystical teachings. Something very human and always available that has been stolen by religion and turned mystical and called “Nirodha Samapatti” so that gullible dipshits will buy into it and follow along like the idiots they are.
It has LONG BEEN KNOWN: I will quote recent research ““Soldiers in the heat of the moment don’t recognize the pain that’s happening,” Linden says. But once that moment is over, those same soldiers may feel a lot of pain from something minor, like a hypodermic needle, he says.” "One system determines the pain’s location, intensity and characteristics: stabbing, aching, burning, etc.
“And then,” Linden says, “there is a completely separate system for the emotional aspect of pain — the part that makes us go, 'Ow! This is terrible.”
True to his religion he was a DELUSIONAL FUCKHEAD who believed he had found some sort of special power and proceeded to fry his nerve endings to the point that he went into shock, felt not a damn thing, and died as a crispy critter. Like I said in the previous post. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
So, of course. If he went into shock then the body has a mechanism which does not register pain (if that mechanism is understood or not I don’t know. I’ll read up on it). I’ve been in shock my self. You mention getting kicked in the shins and not feeling a thing; warriors going into battle not feeling a thing - i was once an athlete in my own right - a skateboarder - a fairly good one. Respected at least by my peers.
Wound my self up to do a front side board slide on a concrete ledge. Nailed the setup. Looked good right up to the point of disengaging and then I ran out of momentum. I naturally hopped off my board and consequently dragged my shin across the rigid and gnarly edge of the concrete ledge. Felt some initial pain. But I was accustomed to pain as a skateboarder.
Decided to pack it in and noticed a calm and pleasant feeling come over me as I got into my car to make the trip home. Got home and started getting out of my sweaty apparel. Lifted up my pant leg and there was literally a pool of blood in my sock. That is to say, my sock was drenched in blood and right at the top of the sock there was a nice little red pool that had formed.
I gazed at the reflective white bone beneath the open wound and stared on reflectively in my state of shock. Then went to the hospital and got some stitches. The doctor asked me, “oh. You did this skateboarding? We’re you wearing a helmet?”
“No.”
“Okay. Well then you’re going to have to wait.”
Fucking asshole. Two layers of stitches for the musculature tissue below the dermis and one for the dermal layer.
So, yeah Cog. I know what shock is.
Now. You’re the unofficial “I’ve done every drug in the world” monkey on the site, so I have a question for you.
Do you think it’s easier for a radical Muslim to blow him or herself up when he or she is fucked up on heroin or other opioids? Cause that’s a part of the suicide bomber tactic, right?
Now if some fuckhead gets ramped up on heroin and lights himself on fire, I wouldn’t be too surprised that he could hold his own and sit patiently as he burns.
But what if you’re not fucked up on drugs? How do you tolerate the initial stages of immolation? How do you sit motionless waiting for shock to set in? The mutherfucker was ON FIRE. He didn’t move. He didn’t utter so much as a syllable.
What he did do was show the fucking Christians suppressing the Buddhist community that in accordance with his training he could literally light himself on fire and not feel an ounce of pain.
I get it. I get it. Soldiers don’t feel pain in the heat of combat. You don’t feel pain when someone kicks you in your abnormally large testicular balls. I don’t buy the monk explanation.
He wasn’t in the heat of battle and he wasn’t flying on adrenaline.
I could expand. We’re talking about a peaceful monk living during one of the bloodiest, atrocity filled wars in recent history.
Given a climate where death is everywhere, this solitary man chose to take his own life in the name of a cause.
Like the North who lost, what? a million + fighters … I mean …
I don’t want to act like I know anything about war. I don’t. I know what I’ve seen in movies.
But given the climate that this sacrifice was made in … of course it caused a lot of emotional pain to those who cared about him.
But, perhaps he didn’t want to live in a world where his country men were slaughtering each other, where a foreign super power was slaughtering his country men and where a Christian Majority were subjugating his religion.
It’s not just a case of one man setting him self on fire.
If you read the research on the subject you will find most are who undergo the very same ordeal are unable to sit withoiut moving. We also do not know that some drug was not used. I personally do not believe that a drug was used. I believe the human mind can endure such pain. I am basing this on my own experience and on my ability to slip into a state of sleep paralysis. (Now, I can not do this for very long, but then I have not practiced. It took me a long time to learn how to open my eyes but I managed it. In this state, the brain is awake but the body is asleep. The only thing I have ever experienced that was exactly like it was when I was given a spinal form my knee surgery. The doctor had my knee up on his shoulder and I was fully conscious watching as he wrapped it. But, I swore it was not my leg. My leg was where I had left it, exactly on the gurney under my hip. ) So, I have had some weird experiences and I have actually studied Zen. I can only speak from personal experience. I think the mind is an amazing thing and that religions steals from us what is already ours and then trys to convince us that it is giving us something new. Just my opinion.
There is some historical evidence that there may have been a person, Jesus of Nazareth, a leader of a Jewish sect. There is no historical evidence to support the “resurrection”. This alleged event recorded in the Gospels by his followers decades after his death is an apotheosis. The post mortem deification of persons was a common practice of Greek and Roman religions at that time. This process continues to the present day in the Roman Catholic Church in canonization of persons post mortem who are prayed to and venerated for the performance of miracles etc. Jesus “The Christ” (anointed one) is an apotheosis. As Carl Jung said: “God is a metaphysical assertion”. Thus whether a Christian is a Trinitarian or Unitarian his deification is a cultural artifact and result of psychological projection.
Yes, there is historical evidence. ‘Stories.’ That’s it. A book of stories. And not one story or one single account of this amazing Jesus during his lifetime. Nothing. YET! We do have accounts of other prophets that lived during the time of Jesus. We have a huge amount of First Century writings. None, mention the Jesus character. None.
Recorded??? You mean there are a couple of stories about it, in a couple of books that were thrown together by believers, and called Gospels. Books whose authorship is unknown. Books that have been altered over time, and contain the hands of many authors, with verses added and taken away. Books whose accounts of the resurrection do not agree. Do you mean those books?
It is actually evidence… It’s just that it is also about as shitty a pile of evidence that anyone could ever hope for. Real King Arther material.
I don’t know how you get to ‘psychological projection’ from what you have said. Projection of what? Obviously, you are not clear about anything leading up to a psychological projection. Nevertheless; you have laid a firm groundwork for a preview of the Christ Myth story perpetuated by the church for thousands of years, without good evidence.
It is an interesting topic for speculation, but I find it difficult to believe this jesus dude had a tomb.
Tombs are relatively expensive, some poor street bum definitely does not have the resources. He did not get any money from his father, he was obviously out of cash. Who doesn’t have the resources to find a decent place for his pregnant wife? Although Joseph was a carpenter ( a well paying profession) he was so fucked up he could not plan a trip. My opinion is that he was a raging alcoholic. That also explains why jesus was a street urchin in his youth.
There is an alternate story where some rich dude put jesus’s body in a tomb. But jesus was the enemy of the state, anyone providing any support (even after his death) would incur the wrath of the state. It was brutal in that age, and anyone smart enough to become rich was also smart enough not to run afoul of the local authorities.
I just can’t get past the part where jesus had a tomb.
If you have time you should listen to it. He explains all that. It’s apparently confirmed but intentionally not marketed.
It’s a family tomb, they are all found in their stone boxes. It’s really interesting I have tendency to accept open-ended position. Him being a Jew and very critical of literal interpretation is at least good starting point. There is also a good conversation on Exodus, he willing to reject biblical narrative for archeological find, I find that respectful. There is of course lot of weird interpretation involved, but it’s worth viewing.
