We had bones of Peter recently discovered, nearby in Bulgaria. Orthodox church leaders promised an all out extensive analysis, which they never did, they agreed among themselves that they are authentic and are now on display in some monastery. Most relics are disputed. However I never heard of this before and it’s apparently 8 or more years old. It genuinely seems to have been cancelled by christians.
Wonder how much they charge to allow the gullible sheep to rest their faithful eyes upon them? Hell, they probably even have a placard attesting to how genuine they are. Can’t argue with a genuine placard.
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I once tried to count the number of tombs that Moses has. I stopped at 6.
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But, but what about the Shroud of Urine? (hint: ask Cog)
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Please don’t! Biggest crock of shit since the Exodus.
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So you deny pissing on that shroud and putting it in the cave?
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He can deny all he wants but he will never be able to prove he wasn’t there.
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It wasn’t my fault. You say that like I did it intentionally. Besides, the cops never found any evidence connecting me to the pee. DNA tests weren’t a thing back then and without an eye witness they couldn’t draw my blood. Even so, it was still an accident. There I was, strolling through the the royal chapel of the cathedral of San Giovanni Battista in Turin, Italy when suddenly a jellyfish stung my leg. Now, everyone knows the cure for a jellyfish sting is to urinate on it as quickly as possible.
Not wanting to make a mess, in my polite monkey way, I hopped up to the nearest chandelier and was busy pissing on my leg when the whole place when insane. A bunch of old men in black ninja suits ran in and began taking some towel looking thing off the wall. I just naturally assumed they were going to give me a hand. I reached down and grabbed a corner and started drying off my leg.
Sheesh. you would think I was burning a bible or something. They began screaming and yelling, I began jumping, and I jumped out the windown and ran up the street. I was half a mile away before I realized I was still holding onto the towel. I just wadded it up and tossed it in a cave. No big deal, completely innocent. Not my fault. Not my problem. They should do something about those fucking jellyfish. Who expects to get jellyfish bit walking through a damn church,. .
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Well we can at least take this as evidence that 5 month old threads are resurrected. 
Theists believe some bat shit crazy stuff, some of them happen to have studied the bible. The Gospels are unevidenced anonymous hearsay, the earliest examples dating to decades after the events they purport to describe, the names assigned them are fictional, and were assigned arbitrarily centuries later.
Oh and of course people don’t rise form the dead, unless you can demonstrate some objective evidence that challenges scientific fact?
So how do you historically explain the SCHOLARLY assessment by the VAST MAJORITY of NT scholars that agree upon for the HISTORICAL evidences for the resurrection:
There is no historical evidence for the resurrection myth in the bible, so I think you’re misrepresenting the facts there.
gospels are the most attested documents in ancient history
Rubbish, there is no independent evidence for anything beyond the crucifixion, and that is scant at best.
VIRTUALLY ALL scholars agree that the disciples did think they saw the resurrected Jesus
There are no contemporary accounts of the resurrection myth.
Atheist scholar Dr. Gerd Ludemann concludes ‘it may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’ death at which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ’
Ah my bad, I hadn’t realised this was a windup…
ALL disciples, Paul - independent of disciples and not known christian killer, agnostic james went to their deaths proclaiming what they saw, ate with, heard from, touched OVER 40 DAYS. NOT ONE RECANTED.
Wow! So someone is claiming, someone else claimed something, well that’s me convinced. You’re kidding right?
they (or anyone else) would NEVER willingly die for a complete and total liar, loser, fraud, lunatic, dead criminal.
Assumptions simply lined up in tandem, however this risible claim seems to be suggesting that religious people don’t lie, or aren’t mistaken, again you’re kidding right?
New Testament scholar Dr. Luke Johnson states ‘some sort of powerful, transformative experience is required to generate the sort of movement earliest Christianity was.’”
Theists in peddling theism non shocker there, this is pretty funny.
sociocultural, religious upheaval that happened in the Jewish community right after the resurrection.
Alleged upheaval, alleged resurrection. This claim is also an appeal to mystery.
10,000 jews converted in 5 weeks.
COUGH! BULLSHIT COUGH!
JEWS DO NOT GIVE UP THEIR WHOLE EXISTENCE - family, job, social status, eternity in the jewish faith - FOR A LIE OR MYTH
You just claimed they did? Which is it? Oh I see you’re setting up a false dichotomy fallacy based on unevidenced hearsay.
There has NOT been a viable naturalistic explanation in scholarship for these evidences except that the disciples/Christian killer Paul/agnostic James ALL did see the resurrected Jesus over 40 days.
- They lied
- They were mistaken or lied in any and all variations.
- The claims are false.
- They were woefully ignorant and superstitious
- The myths gained credence after the fact for any number of reasons
- People don’t rise from the dead.
- You’re using an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.
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Halle-fuckin-lujah!!!…At last the missing evidence! I have longed for this moment for so long!
Oh wait, hang on, it’s just @Sheldon winding me up again…dammit! Stop teasing. We all know that somebody said something and someone else saw something and their friends remembered and told someone else and everyone knows that some other guys thought they had witnessed something they could not explain… and all of that should be more than enough to convince anyone of, well, ANYTHING, right? So…even if there has never been anyone survive death, what the hell…there’s always a first time, right? And just because you have never seen it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, right? And how could so many people be wrong? And if it isn’t true then what is the explanation? And…you’re stupid…and you think you know everything…
Uh, how am I doing so far?..I have more stuff…
Edit: historicity vs historical accuracy
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Incidentally in case it wasn’t clear, there is no historical evidence for anything in the biblical resurrection myth, or for most of the rest, the only independently evidenced event is the crucifixion.
While we’re at it, what an historical scholar subjectively believes is not historical evidence, and most people who study the bible also hold unevidenced subjective beliefs, and every so often apologists dredge up these dishonest stats, they represent an appeal to authority fallacy of course, like a scientists being cited who claims to have falsified species evolution, which the entire global scientific world seems to have missed, and when you do a cursory investigation the scientists is a primary school humanities teacher or has a PhD in engineering, and they are of course barking mad creatards.
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What? Who evidenced the crucifixion? If you are just asserting crucifixion existed, well so did Rome, so what? We have stories about the cucifixion. My favorite happens to be from Gospel of Peter where the talking cross walks out of the tomb. 10.39–42 “[38] And so those soldiers, having seen, awakened the centurion and the elders (for they too were present, safeguarding). [39] And while they were relating what they had seen, again they see three males who have come out from they sepulcher, with the two supporting the other one, and a cross following them, [40] and the head of the two reaching unto heaven, but that of the one being led out by a hand by them going beyond the heavens. [41] And they were hearing a voice from the heavens saying, ‘Have you made proclamation to the fallen-asleep?’ [42] And an obeisance was heard from the cross, ‘Yes.’ [43]”
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Non-Christian (independent) accounts of the crucifixion are Josephus, and Roman sources such as Tacitus. These of course evidence none of the biblical claims or theistic beliefs about Jesus, which was my point entirely. Bear in mind the gospel accounts are pure hearsay, and anonymous.
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The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities , found in Book 18 states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pontius Pilate It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum .
Unfortunately for ardent believers this 11th century manuscript (the earliest extant copy of the Testimonium) and later copies (notably the “Slavic Testimonium” ) have been altered to reflect the politics of the time, have been interpolated and most scholars think the Vol 18 reference to the Jesus figure is a 3rd century monkish interpolation. Even the Catholic Church recognised it as fraudulent as far back as the 1830’s.
Here’s something I wrote and bears republishing here as the Tacitus’Jospehus/Lucian/Pliny canards keep surfacing.
Tacitus and that Jesus Passage:
Tacitus was a Roman Historian writing at the turn of the 1st Century CE, i.e between 90CE and 120CE. Many theists make much of a brief mention of a “Chrestus” and use it to bolster their beliefs without ever realising what the passage actually says.
Just to make sure no fantasy mad theist argues the point here is the passage in English and Latin:
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”
In Latin: *Ergo abolendo rumori Nero subdidit reos et quaesitissimis poenis adfecit, quos per flagitia invisos vulgus Chrestianos appellabat. auctor nominis eius Christus Tibero imperitante per procuratorem Pontium Pilatum supplicio adfectus erat; repressaque in praesens exitiabilis superstitio rursum erumpebat, non modo per Iudaeam, originem eius mali, sed per urbem etiam, quo cuncta undique atrocia aut pudenda confluunt celebranturque. igitur primum correpti qui fatebantur, deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt. [Wiki]
The most anyone can get out of this rather inaccurate passage (Pilate was Prefect not Procurator and there was not an 'immense multitude" of christians anywhere much less in Rome in 60CE) Is that a Jewish Cult of Chrestus was in Rome in about 64CE according to reports some 30 - 50 years later.
Not very convincing evidence for a Jesus, even for a rabid theist now is it?
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there are not conflicting stories, just give me one. all can be explained by different types of writing styles (like abridgement, paraphrase, non-chronological writing), personal preferences for communicating messages to certain audiences
Kindly explain these then:
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Josephus was born in 37 CE. Although we do not know the year in which Jesus was crucified with any certainty, we know from evidence internal to Paul’s epistles that Jesus could not have been crucified as late as 37 CE, so we can state with confidence that Josephus did not witness the crucifixion. He only reported what Christians were saying.
Tacitus witnessed nothing and merely reported what the Christians were saying.
- Tacitus, Roman historian (AD 56-118)(about AD 115 concerning Nero in AD 64);
Not all the relief that could come from the man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Therefore, to squelch the rumor, Nero created scapegoats and subjected to the most refined tortures those whom the common people called ‘Christians,’ [a group] hated for their abominable crimes. Their name comes from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate. Suppressed for the moment, the deadly superstition broke out again, not only in Judea, the land which originated this evil, but also in the city of Rome, where all sorts of horrendous and shameful practices, from every part of the world converge and are fervently cultivated. Annals 15.44
The writings of Josephus are known forgeries. “Testimonium Flavium ” (Antiquities 18:3.3) Josephus was also not a contemporary and had no first hand knowledge of the crucifixion. Flavius Josephus (AD 38-100) Writing about AD 94
These are NOT independent accounts, but rather, but rather, the repetition of stories believed by Christians, told by Christians, and then repeated as actual history.
There are NO first century accounts of the crucifixion and the accounts we have are amazingly varied. We don’t know if Jesus existed. If he existed we don’t know if he was crucified. If he was crucified, we don’t know if he was nailed to a tree, a pole, or a cross.
You will have to provide better evidence than what you are currently asserting. I am unconvinced of anything we can consider actual evidence for the crucifixion. Not that I actually care by the way. I have no problem with the idea, Jesus existed and someone killed him, probably the Romans. So what? It is a mundane assertion that is as routine as anyone else on the planet ever being crucified and we know there were a lot of these people. Nevertheless, even as a mundane claim of daily Roman interactions with subversives, I do not see evidence for the claim. It’s just not there.
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And then you have the Gospel of Judas, The Gospel of Mary, The Childhood Stories of Jesus, The Gospel of Thomas, The Extended Story of Adam and Eve, The Infancy Gospels, The Gospel According to Peter (That’s the one with the giant talking cross that I like so much.) The contradictions and the fables continue on and on and on…