I didn’t even consider the post as real. I seriously doubt the guy will say anything at all.
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I share your scepticism, as seeking debate is easy, and this looked more like another drive by declaring their faith or belief on an atheist site…but you never know…
I’m sitting in the waiting room of my dentist, some light relief might be welcome…
For myself, I’m not Muslim . . . but I’ve actually studied the Quran, and I have a few different translations in my home library.
As for my favorite passage from the Prophet (Peace be unto Him):
"Oh you unbelievers. You do not believe what I believe.
"And I do not believe what you believe.
"Nor will you believe what I believe.
"And I will not believe what you believe.
“To you your way, and to me mine.”
Truer words have rarely been spoken
And I don’t follow The Quran for the same reasons why I don’t follow The Bible, the Baghavad Gita, the Tibetian Book of the Dead, and so forth.
I do not believe in God (or gods), although I am open-minded.
If God exists, then where does God come from?
If God has always existed, then let us save a step and assume that the Universe has always existed?
Or, if we decide the God’s origin is an unanswerable question, then why not skip a step and decide the the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question?
But let us suppose that I’m wrong and that God does, indeed, exist.
When I see all of the horrific damage done by organized religion (such as the current horrors in the Middle East, and also because of the garbage done by religion in my own country), I think that God would forgive me for disbelieving, as He knows in my heart that I honestly believe that rejecting religion is the same thing as rejecting violence.
Or, perhaps, God is unreasonable . . . which means that we’re all screwed anyway, and religion wouldn’t make a difference.
I hope this answers your question, and I hope you get back to me.
Added later: I forgot to mention that I quoted Surah 109 from the Quran, in case anyone wants to fact-check.
But when you pair that with…
Allah has revealed “clear tokens.” Only evil people are disbelievers. 0:0
Don’t bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die. [2:6]
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. [2:98]
Disbelievers are losers. [2:121]
But if there are any wrong-doers around after you’ve killed off all the disbelievers, persecutors and aggressors, then you’ll have to kill them too. [2:193]
Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people.
Now… It just might be my reading of the Quaran, but I think there is something a bit disingenuous and slightly hypocritical about the book. I would probably understand it better if I were indoctrinated as a child.
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Ok, so you are not a muslim, and as far as I can tell you are a non-believer (as in you don’t believe that the islamic Allah exists¹). Therefore, it puzzles me that you use those typical islamic expressions (Peace be unto Him) that believers use by reflex, more or less indistiguishable from you actually believing that Muhammed was an actual prophet from an actually existing Allah. Can you enlighten me here?
¹ As opposed to “you believe that the islamic Allah does not exist”
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Non-belief is no reason to be ignorant. Belief on the other hand… Well…
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I believe it is important to find common ground with people . . . especially when discussing religion.
I may take off my shoes (and put on slippers) when entering a traditional Japanese household, I cover my head when entering a synagogue . . . and so forth.
Many Muslim people (depending upon their background) can become quite offended by something as simple as a portrait of The Prophet (peace be unto him), and the original poster seems to identify as Muslim.
Since I try to show respect toward other peoples’ position even when I disagree with them, it doesn’t hurt me to communicate in such a fashion any more than when I address a Roman Catholic priest as “Father” even when I’m not Catholic.
I believe that a purpose of this forum is to find common ground, and that can’t be accomplished without a demonstration of mutual respect.
And I really do wish everyone peace. In Arabic, “Salaam” means peace . . . which–as a Jew–I might say “shalom”, which means the same thing.
I will often say “A salaam alaikum” when entering someone’s home or business if they are Muslim, as I actually do speak some Arabic. This means “I bid you peace,” and we see this phrase in many cultures and faiths. There used to be a television cooking show hosted by a chef named Jeff Smith–who happened to also be a Methodist minister–who closed every show by saying “I bid you peace” . . . which was actually his trademark.
And–as I indicated earlier–I am sincere when I say such things, as I really do wish everyone peace, and I think that the world would be better if everyone else wished each other peace and meant it.
And nowhere in these points do I endorse religion.
I agree that the above passage are in the Quran, and that they are horrible . . . just as we have equally horrific passages in The Bible.
I have read the Quran, Bible, Baghavad Gita, The Book of Mormon, the Guru Granth Sahib, and so forth as a form of self-education and to satisfy my curiosity.
Just because I read a religious text with an open mind (and as a self-styled scholar) doesn’t mean that I buy into it . . . any more than an anthropologist who insinuates himself into a tribe of aboriginies from Papua New Guinea believes in cannibalism.
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LOL… I try to never compare. Nothing is as silly as confronting a Muslim, to hear the reply, “Well, the bible is just as bad.” LOL Well, we agree. But we are only talking about one of the books currently.
FOR ALL CONCERNED: I agree that there are passages in all religious texts that are lessons for the ages. I believe people wrote down common sense observations and simply attributed them to their prophets. Or the prophets who were educated, or worldly, wrote down some of the lessons they had learned. I’ve no problem with some good things in any religious text. As long as we don’t pretend the horrific shit isn’t printed right alongside.
I can’t recall ever calling a priest ‘father’ or a rabbi ‘rabbi.’ I don’t call police ‘officer.’ I am happy to use Sir, Ma’am. That’s about as polite as I get and I am very free with these terms. I would call a beggar Sir. I call my waiters and waitresses ‘Sir’ or ‘Ma’am.’ I have a deep respect for human beings and the more human you are the more I respect you. (People call this ‘being human,’ ‘being down to earth.’) That seems the best fit for what I am talking about. It’s not about position or intelligence but it’s about being real. I don’t call a judge ‘Your Honor’ or ‘Honorable.’ These are titles of respect for the justice system, but I don’t respect the justice system. IMO it’s broken. I will respect people, but not if they insist on being their titles. I do call my boss, boss. She owns the company. She put her money into the company and the customers I service are hers. I am hired to do a job. We have a working agreement. I am the employee and she is the boss. Those are our titles. When it comes to things job-related,
Interesting, I hadn’t thought about this until you mentioned it. I just realized that it comes from having priests, cops, and even judges sitting in front of me in my counseling office. I ran a DUI program and a first-time drug offender program for Orange County, CA. One of the things I would not put up with is someone touting their imagined authority. I also mandated - insisted - that they treat me like a human being. (I would need to get into the counselor/client relationship and therapeutic double binds to go on.) I treat people like people, not like their imagined titles. If someone is stuck on their title, I probably will not talk to them and there will certainly be no friendship with anyone I must refer to by a title.
I guess it takes all kinds. I’m just another kind making it through life the way I do it. I don’t pretend it is the right way or even the only way. It’s just the way I seem to do it. I suppose I could be nicer, but why? LOL
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Were I in a Muslim household or even a mosque, I understand this is a greeting. We have the same greetings in Korea. “peace/ tranquility’ (An-yang-ha-sayo.) It’s the most common greeting. It may be connected with Confucianism. To say goodbye, the person leaving tells the host "Peace stay with you.’ And the guest is saluted with “Peace or Tranquility go with you.” I see the Islamic greeting as no more than this. I would have no issues using it.
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I don’t place much importance in titles, but other people do. If we want to look at these points in another way, consider the struggle of trans people, and how pronouns are a subject of legislation and acrimony in places like Texas, Florida, Mississippi, and so forth.
Acknowledging trans peoples’ preferred pronouns–without judging them for it–goes a long way toward benefitting their mental health, and if we should do this for trans people, then we should do this (within reason) for everybody.
Please note that this doesn’t mean that I think I should address someone as “doctor” when they are a high school dropout . . . although I might still address a high school dropout as “doctor” if they received an honorary degree from an educational institution. I have also addressed a Lakota Native American shaman/medicine man as “doctor” even though he had little formal schooling, as he was involved in a project with a drug company that was researching traditional herbal medicines. He also volunteered at a poison control center, and was credited with saving the lives of children by helping to identify poisonous plants that they had ingested. This was because he not only knew the plants, but where they grew, during what time of year, and so forth.
Also, some titles are unreasonably long. Charles II, the Habsburg king of Spain had–as his titles–the following:
By the Grace of God, King of Castile, of León, of Aragon, of the Two Sicilies, of Jerusalem, of Hungary, of Dalmatia, of Croatia, of Navarre, of Granada, of Toledo, of Valencia, of Galicia, of Mallorca, of Seville, of Sardinia, of Córdoba, of Corsica, of Murcia, of Jaén, of the Algarves, of Algeciras, of the Canary …
And so on, as this is only a partial list. Using his full titles and pronouns every time someone wanted to talk to him would probably make a conversation impossible.
And as I believe that the world is in trouble, I would rather build bridges than walls, and addressing people by their preferred titles and pronouns is a part of this.
Please see below:
As another point about titles, there is (low key and understated) acrimony in the hospitals about titles. I know any number of nurses who have a PhD in nursing, yet physicians don’t want to address them as “doctor” within the hospital because “it may create confusion with the patients” . . . yet someone who has a PhD in chemistry or physics gets to be addressed as “doctor.” There is a very similar acrimony toward chiropractors, as physicians often refuse to address them as “doctor” as well, and physicians seem to get irritated when other people address chiropractors as “doctor.”
Which bit, and how are you claiming it evidences any deity?
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I don’t care.
i don’t care.
I don’t care.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists, or is even possible? That is all I care about, beliefs are less important t me than the evidence that supports them. Vague subjective and esoteric claims about miracles are worthless, what else have you got?
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Likely a hit and run driver….
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Why don’t you believe in the Bible or the Bhagavad Gita? Why don’t you believe in those gods?
Let me guess, If your answer is quite close to what I’m assuming then congratulations. You’re now one step closer to understanding why Atheists don’t believe in the existence of your god or any of the others that mankind has dreamed up.
Like Stephen Roberts once said: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
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