What she’s not getting that even IF there was a historical Jesus. In no way does that slide right into him being the “gospel Jesus” that the Bible claims that he was. People make up shit and exaggerate things into a religion all of the time that are untrue. The ancient Egyptians did it all of the time by exaggerating that their pharaohs were gods themselves because they were identified with Ra. Faith is not a reliable path to the truth.
The plan that I was referring to, is the plan of salvation.
There are many different aspects highlighted across the theological field, but in essence: it is a plan wherein all life has the ability to choose whether it wants eternal life.
Outside of Zoroastrianism, heaven, or paradise was not a well-known concept in antiquity.
Jews believed all who died went to Sheol. Pharaohs were believed to return to their mummified earthly bodies. The Greeks and Romans believed people went to Hades. Only royalty and rulers were deified, and given some sort of afterlife.
The teachings of Jesus introduced the idea of eternal life to the classical world.
Today, we have a myriad of proofs that energy does not die. It merely changes form. We are discovering new dimensions and growing in understanding as a unified world…no matter what it looks like at eye-level. We don’t know everything, but so much is unfolding before us, even as we speak. I’m excited about that.
That is subjective. To some people salvation means getting out of a shitty situation. To others it means “the afterlife”.
All of which is an Argumentum Ad Populum. Sky Fathers are not proven to exist. If you have invented a science that has proven the existence of a deity. Present it to the Cambridge Institute and collect your Nobel Prize.
I’m glad that you agree that something can’t come from nothing. That’s called Chemistry.
And that’s why we have Science so we can learn because Religion doesn’t teach shit.
So, you do actually believe Jesus did exist. You just hadn’t found any primary sources. My misunderstanding.
I don’t think I could have been more clear.
I feel that you have wasted my time on purpose. At the very least you have recklessly squandered it.
Save us from what? A god who may send us to hell?
Buddhism is over 4,000 years old and their goal goal is to achieve “moksha,” or salvation, which ends the cycle of rebirths to become part of the absolute soul.
@Tia_Thompson we are not energy, we metabolise nutrients to get energy. We are basically food processors. You are spending energy by thinking, it’s not that your ability to think is somehow sustained energy field.
Nothing personal. Buddhism is approximately 2,500 years old and the historical Gautama Buddha is thought to have predated Jesus by around 500 years.
You’re right about the “moksha”. It’s worth mentioning that the cycle of rebirth could possibly land you in a heavenly world. The pantheon of Gods and Heavenly planes in Buddhist Cosmology is extensive.
The Buddha went one step further than Jesus ever even contemplated. The Buddha said that even a rebirth in heaven ends in old age and death. Even if it lasts a thousand aeons, heavenly beings die and are reborn in lower planes.
He also extensively dismissed and argued against all ideas of eternalism and an indestructible “Self”.
@rat_spit Before this gets lost in a sea of words, I wanted to tell you that I thought your story was beautiful. I could picture it. Thank you for sharing it with me.
I enjoy foraging as well, although there is no Boreal Forest here.
This is an urban forager I was recently turned onto. She is a little loud, but often funny and her recipes look great most of the time.
On the contrary, I provided you with primary (see above), secondary, and tertiary sources, as well as seminar held by 200 scholarly “peers” who reviewed the subject of the historicity of Jesus over a 6 year period of time and concluded that at least 20% of the sayings found in the NT can be traced to a historical Jesus.
You now have your sources and are free to argue who you thought that Jesus actually was.
I didn’t see you list a primary source for Jesus. If you did you should have no problem crafting a simple reply to this message with the name of a primary source for Jesus. You know, like I’ve asked for several times.
@Nyarlathotep Paul and Josephus, attested to James, the brother of Jesus. Paul also attested to Peter. Peter and James attested to Jesus, much like Plato attested to Socrates and Aristotle to Plato.
I know it a most futile desire, but I wish that we could all communicate with other in this way.
There’s a stupid.
The difference between Socrates and Jesus is that it doesn’t really matter to anyone whether Socrates was real or if he was just another fictional character made up by Plato. No one claims or asserts that whether believing if Socrates’ was real or if he was a work of fiction is required to avoid eternal damnation and get into a paradise. No one is going to start a war to convince other people to believe that Socrates was ever real. No one built a bullshit religion around Socrates. No one gives a shit about him, period.
I attested to Spiderman. Thus he is real.
We don’t have anything from Peter or James; we have statements from Paul, who never met Jesus. Therefore Paul can’t be a primary source for Jesus.
And again, Josephus wasn’t even alive when Jesus was supposedly alive. So that can’t be a primary source for Jesus either.
I’m still waiting for a primary source. I’ve been waiting for 30 years…
Actually, there is a real Spider-Man. Some immigrant in France named Mamoudou Gassama
@Tia_Thompson these guys are a rough bunch. Don’t let them get under your skin.
I’ve been following this thread and as far as I can tell you are an atheist? But it seems you’re giving evidence for the historical account of Jesus?
Anyway. I usually take the toughest punches from Sheldon and Cognostic (although Sheldon has been unusually silent as of late).
Chicken of the woods! This is one fungi my wife and I have not been able to find. But we did find “Turkey Tails” the other day - which have cancer fighting properties and are best consumed after being dried and (usually) seeped in tea.
Keep fighting the good fight. I’m personally done having contentious debates on this forum. Mainly here for the occasional shit and giggles along with being abused by Cognostic (I love that monkey).
… (heavy sigh)… Well, just as I expected. You absolutely failed to address the point I was making. You also refuse to respond to my “Divine Kindness” inquiry. Sidestep, deflect, ignore. Same game plan we have seen on here countless times. Claim you are here to learn, but deftly avoid the topics to which you have no patent answers. What a shame. Thought you were gonna be different. Obviously that is not the case. So, Tia, unless you directly address the two subjects I mentioned, expect no further responses from me.
That is an interesting perspective to consider. Thanks!