I hate christmas

NOT TRUE: You treat your Atheism exactly like a religion. You don’t understand that Atheism is not a position of belief or that it is ‘NOT’ anti-theism. While I can be anti-theistic against most Gods, once they have been clearly defined, clumping all of Christianity, Islam, and whatever into a single body to focus my hatred on, is not in me. I leave that to the angry, bigoted, asshole, atheists.

Christmas was a religious holiday before the Christans made it a religious holiday, All the Christians did was replace Roman traditional Gods with their gods. And where did the Romans get their Gods? From the Greeks and the Persians. Christmas is not, nor has it ever been, exclusivly a Christian thing. It has always been a Godly thing.

Cognostic, I could lecture you on what atheism is all about. You don’t even know that the word “atheism” is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized. As for “hatred”—that emotion may or may not be present in the mind of an atheist, but it has NOTHING to do with atheism. (Unlike you, I have never met a “bigoted, asshole atheist”.

As for your claim that “Christmas…has always been a Godly thing”, my point is that it has always been a NATURAL thing—a celebration of the end of winter and the promise of light and replenishment to come. The winter solstice marked the end of of starvation from the bitter cold. THAT is its true ancient origin, which is not a bit “religious”.
I grant you that yes, indeed, our superstitious ancient ancestors believed that the sun was a “god”, just like everything else around them, including the thunder, the moon, etc. But that’s not being “religious” in the way we understand that word, today. That is anthropomorphism, which is exactly the opposite: Our ancestors’ “gods” were quite HUMAN. Their gods were very much line the gods of Native American peoples who had (and still have) a huge respect for nature and who attribute spiritual qualities to animals and nature. That sense of “religious” is a more accurate depiction of the “religiosity” of our ancient sun-worshiping ancestors.

So you are dead right when you say " Christmas is not, nor has it ever been, exclusively a Christian thing." It is a celebration of a truly joyous “miracle”—the end of winter and the promise of warmer days and replenishment".

Hey, if superstitious people wish to “anthropomorphize” the source of this natural “miracle”, bully for them. Just keep Christianity OUT of it, right?


Hell yeah! You tell 'im, Andy! We have been trying for YEARS to teach Cog what Atheism is. But that simple-minded primate brain of his just refuses to listen. Maybe YOU can finally get through to him, though, with a fresh approach. It’s about damn time we get to see that walking flea motel get schooled!

Hey, everybody! Andy is about to teach Cog a well-deserved lesson! Bring your popcorn! This should be awesome! :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

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Cognostic versus Quora Giant, Andy Stout. This is some real WCW shit now. Like when Big Van Vader fought Sting in 1992. :heart_eyes:

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Why in the fuck would a celebration at the end of winter be natural. (Atheism is capitalized to rub it in the face of the christians and their god. It’s a personal choice and not a gramatical one.)

Sure you have. You just don’t recognize him. It’s called “Self deception.”

End of the story. You proved my point. We still worship the first sunrise of the new year here in Korea as well as the Lunar New Year and “Chusok” The Full moon harvest Festival. All of these 5000 years older than the Christian religion.

BULLSHIT! It’s directly linked to shamanism and it prevalant throughout Asia. Just because it is not your religion does not make it any less spiritual, mystical, mysterious, magical, or ‘REAL,’ in the minds of the worshipers.

Thousands of people line the mountans and beaches all over Korea to honor their shaministic traditions, even the christians. This is an event as big as fireworks the night before. Make wishes for the new year, forgive all trespasses for the past year. In the report, you do not see the “Mudang” I tried to find one but I think they played it down for the international news. The shamen bang their drums to welcome the sun and put on a big show. It’s RELIGIOUS and it is a tradition that supercedes the christian faith by 5000 years.

ANTHROPOMORPHIM - You mean things like talking donkeys, Balaam’s Ass, or talking serpents, Genesis 3: the serpent was cunning, more than all the animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. Or a magic man that comes down from the sky and takes human form? A nonhuman thing that takes on human characteristics. You are splitting hairs to try and separate Christianity from the rest of the dipshit woo woo that is out there.

And let’s not forget: God made people out of ‘MUD.’ Just how far away from anthropomorphism do you imagine this special magical religion to be?

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Or maybe you have, and you just didn’t know it. If the atheist was a bigoted asshole, then there’s a good chance he/she was also a liar. In which case he/she might have seemed like a wonderful human being. You simply cannot trust those lying bigoted asshole atheists.

Great, now wonderful human beings can’t be blindly trusted.

What’s next - that it’s equinox and not solstice at the end of winter?? Geez.

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You really don’t get it. I am NOT saying that the winter solstice should be “worshiped” by us atheists who are the last people on Earth to worship anything. So, let’s get that straight, ok? Now pay attention…

Christmas is a thorn is our side. It’s a sickening religious event that allows Bible-thumpers to flaunt their nauseating Bronze Age superstitious beliefs about a “Christ child” being born on the 25th of December. The entire world suddenly explodes with nativity scenes, angels, virgin Marys and baby Jesuses everywhere. It is pure PROPAGANDA. Worse—it is taken as “gospel truth”. People believe this shit.

All I am trying to suggest is that we atheists open our mouths and expose this lie. But few of us—almost NONE of us—actually know that Christmas is a lie and that it was ALWAYS a PAGAN CELEBRATION of the SUN’S REBIRTH. It was all about the end of winter and the promise of warmer days and replenishment on Earth. No more deadly cold, no more starvation. There was no “religion” involved. The sun was the focus of the celebration. Yes, all the different civilizations gave the sun a name (Horus, Ra, Mithra/s, etc.) but this is called “anthropomorphism” which simply means giving nonhuman things (like the sun, the moon, thunder, etc., human characteristics). So the sun is a man riding a chariot across the sky: the moon is a woman naked Luna; thunder is a man with a big hammer, Thor). That’s charming and not harmful and NOT religious. We still “worship” Santa Claus and the Easter bunny…but there’s no religion involved. THAT is my point. Ok?

So all I want is for the world to wake up and stop believing that this the birth of an imaginary “Jesus” is what this all-natural celebration is about. I want to EXPOSE the truth of the REAL meaning of this age-old, wonderful, all-natural, all-human celebration…AND then we can ALL ENJOY IT.

Ok? Let’s get rid of the lie of Christimas and replace it with what is always was—a UNIVERSAL. ALL HUMAN, ALL INCLUSIVE, ALL NATURAL CELEBRATION.


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C’mon, Doc, don’t be silly. Of COURSE wonderful human beings can be trusted. That’s what makes them wonderful human beings. It is the lying bigoted asshole atheists ACTING like wonderful human beings that cannot be trusted. Remember, just because they act like wonderful human beings does not make them wonderful human beings. They are still lying bigoted asshole atheists who can NEVER be trusted. But wonderful human beings are always wonderful human beings, and can therefore always be trusted. See the difference?

We really need a sarcasm font color. :grin:

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Fuck, there’s 235 days until Solstice !!! Are we going to see this every day?

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Whew. I am at a loss to understand what you are trying to say. I have explained—repeatedly—why the winter solstice celebration is 100% NATURAL. So, for the last time, here it is again:

At the END of the 3-day (annual) winter solstice [Dec 21-23; 23-24; 25] the SUN (named “Sol” by the ancient Romans) appears to STANDS STILL (Sol-STACE). Then, on (or about) December 25, it begins to ascend higher each day, thus ending winter. Understand? So this was a VERY joyous day! Every civilization that suffered the deadly, bitter cold winters rejoiced! THAT is what December 25 was ALL ABOUT for thousands of years…until Christians SABOTAGED it and made it about the birth of their imaginary Jesus. Ok? Are we on the same page? So, until Christianity came along, the winter soltsice celebrations were all celebrating the “re-birth” of the sun. And that event WAS…and still IS…100% natural. There is nothing supernatural about it.

Your confusion about believing that this celebration was “religious” is understandable. You believe that since these our superstitious ancestors gave names to the sun and worshiped it, that the winter solstice celebration was RELIGIOUS. But please understand that these were extremely superstitious people. Everything in nature was "god-like to them—animals were gods; thunder was a god. Anything they didn’t understand was “supernatural”. But that doesn’t change the fact that what theses people were REALLY celebrating was the END OF WINTER. Right? And that was not about any “god”…that was about the weather becoming warmer and bringing them the promise of “light and replenishment”. And I’m here to tell you, Mr. Cognostic: there is nothing supernatural or religious about that.

So, this is important to us atheist, isn’t it? It means that “Christmas” is a lie. Even IF a so-called “Christ child” happened to be born on Dec.25 WHO CARES?! Lots of other babies are born on that day. Bully for them. But the birth of some child on Dec.25, has NOTHING to do with the importance of that joyous day. The sun doesn’t care; it keeps being “born” on Dec. 25; it keeps on ending winter; and it keeps on replenishing our world.

So why the hell are the only rational people on Earth not the ones who should be celebrating this ALL NATURAL, ALL SECULAR, ALL HUMAN DAY?!

There are TWO solstices every year—the winter and summer solstices. So your wait is cut in half! Ha.

See?.. Told ya… See the shit we have been putting up with all this time? Now you know how WE feel. No matter how much you try to explain, that monkey brain of his just doesn’t listen. Oh… And did you notice he never did address what Atheism means? Thought for sure you were going to school his mangy ass on that. Although, in all fairness, I understand how you missed it. With all the blabbering nonsense coming out of him, it is easy to lose things in the mess. Don’t give up, though, Andy. Please. You may be our last hope in being able to bring Cog around to being a True Atheist. We’re counting on you, man. Stay strong. :muscle:

I don’t know where you live, but here in N.W. Washington state, December 25th isn’t the end of winter around here. The days may start getting longer, but we don’t notice a difference in the weather until the end of March.

!. Christmas is not a thorn in my side. It’s a great holiday. Your own Christmas card points this out when you ask people to circle the religious or Christian symbols and then have pics of Santa, trees, gifts, etc… How are magic reindeer, stockings full of candy, gifts, and happy children a thorn in my side? You are simply celebrating the Holiday ‘WRONG.’ If you don’t like the way YOU are celebrating it “STOP DOING IT THAT WAY.” If you don’t like the holiday, “DON’T FUCKING CELEBRATE IT,” No one gives a shit.

It’s called “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” you 'TARD." It’s the exact same “FREEDOM” that allows you to come on this site, open your ignorant trap and say inane bullshit that would get you killed in an Islamic country. THEIR FREEDOM IS YOUR FREEDOM, you moron. Speak out against their reasoning, challenge their logic, educate them, BUT DO NOT CHALLENGE THEIR FREEDOM TO EXPRESS THEIR BELIEFS.

You are engaged in pure bullshit and adhomonim attacks. Why in the fuck are you even going there. No one on the site has brought up the authenticity of the Christmas holiday or the existence of Jesus. You are off on a wild rant against religion and you sound like a moron.

Pick a topic and stay on it. You are all over the fucking map, politics, abortion, christmas, bla bla, bla. What you are is a religious bigot.

WTF??? AND WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK MODERN ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY IS?
Islam: Total submission to the will of god.
Christianity: Proverbs 3:5-6_ 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

Matthew 6:24

No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Romans 8:5

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Colossians 3:2

Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth

I can do this all day…

Confusion about sun sacrifice being religious? Are you insane? Have you not heard of the Aztecs? Huitzilopochtli, also spelled Uitzilopochtli, also called Xiuhpilli (“Turquoise Prince”) and Totec (“Our Lord”), Aztec sun and war god NOT RELIGIOUS MY ASS! (Seriously, on a side note. Did you graduate high school? You sound like you are 16 years old and on a mission to save the world without the intellignece to blow your own nose.)

And modern Christians, Islam, Hindu, Whatever… are not? WTF are you on about? Your arguments are moronic.

You are a Moron: I have already cited the aztecs. You are engaged in a “Historical Fallacy.” You are attempting to see the religiosity of the past through the eyes of modern religion. Since it does not look the same, you think it is not there. People also do this when they look at China and say it is secular. BULLSHIT. I am really familiar with China. Not even the Comunists in charge of the country are secular. Ancestor worship is EVERYWHERE and deepy engraned in the culture. SHAMANISM survives in all their religious celebrations and superstitions.

Pretending the Sun worship or Anamissm, was not religious or that it was a ‘good religion’ is pure ignorance.

Egyptian Sun God Worship: Ra - All forms of life were believed to have been created by Ra. In some accounts, humans were created from Ra’s tears and sweat, hence the Egyptians call themselves the “Cattle of Ra”. In the [myth of the Celestial Cow] it is recounted how mankind plotted against Ra and how he sent his eye as the goddess, Sekhmet, to punish them. Egyptians hunted ibises in large numbers and offered them as sacrifices to their gods.Scientific Reports Magazine reported that the Egyptians offered these birds as sacrifices to the gods Horus, Ra, and Thoth.

Do you know the difference between sympathetic magic and parasympathetic matgic? Paganism practiced sympathetic magic. A one to one relationship between the physical world and the spiritual world. Later developments, and the end of paganism, brought parasympathetic magic, (symbolic magic). One no longer had to kill a man and dring his blood to gain his power and strength as in the pagan beliefs. Now, a man could symbolicly drink the man’s blood, in… let’s say… a glass of wine… to gain his power and strength., This is a key distinction between paganism and modern theologies. Sympathetic and parasympathetic magic. Most of today’s religions are parasympathetic; however, you can still see the sympathetic practiced in Judaism, Shaminism, Shinto, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc…

Where the fuck am I at???

Saturnalia, held in mid-December, is an ancient Roman pagan festival honoring the agricultural god Saturn. Saturnalia celebrations are the source of many of the traditions we now associate with Christmas.

Saturnalia, the most popular holiday on the ancient Roman calendar, derived from older farming-related rituals of midwinter and the winter solstice especially the practice of offering gifts or sacrifices to the gods during the winter sowing season. In addition to other celebratory practices, Romans gave their friends and loved ones small terracotta figurines known as signillaria , which may have referred back to older celebrations involving human sacrifice. On the first day of the festivities, a young pig would often be publicly sacrificed at the temple, which was located in the northwest corner of the Roman Forum. The cult statue of Saturn in the temple traditionally had woolen bonds tied around his feet, but during Saturnalia these bonds were loosened to symbolize the *** god’s liberation.***

YOU JUST DON’T HAVE A CLUE!

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Ha. Tin-Man, you sure weren’t kidding about “Cognostic”. I think this poor guy needs to change his name to properly reflect what he represents. I might suggest, “CogNOstic”.

Damn, Andy. :confused:… I hate to say it, but it looks like Cog is kicking your ass right now. C’mon, man. Don’t let us down. Put Cog in his place already.

Poor Cognostic…He criticizes me of committing the informal logical fallacy “ad hominem”—and he can’t even SPELL the word. (This fallacy is committed when a person criticizes the person rather than their argument.) It is the first sign that the offender has nothing else to resort to doing, since he has no good argument to use against his opponent. So immediately after Cognostic accuses ME of this fallacy, he immediately launches 7 “ad hominems” right at me. Ha ha. Methinks poor Coggy-boy has temper tantrums when he loses a debate and has nothing but insults in his “arse-nal”. Ha ha.

See for yourselves the funny examples of “the pot calling the kettle black”: —>


Alright…if you insist… (ha ha). I just finished gave him a taste of his own medicine. I wish I had more time to spend here, on this site. With your kind encouragement, Tin-Man, I sure want to!