How many genders are there?

You’re right. 6’5" people of either gender are rare. How about allowing average transgender guys playing on girl’s teams? Is that fair? Even considering just averages, guys are taller and stronger than girls. I’m not arguing either side here–I’m just interested in what others on this forum think.

As I’ve stated before; allowing tall people in many sports is unfair; imo.

If I was tasked with making women volleyball fair: I’d start by getting rid of:

  • All the women who are taller than average woman.
  • All the women who are stronger than the average women.
  • All the women who have played volleyball longer than the average.
  • All the women who have parents with a volleyball background.
  • All the women who have more resources than the average.

I’m sure I could write down a few dozen more before I’d be concerned about some hypothetical 6’5" trans-woman player.

Just go and watch some of these nutbags on you-tube lecturing us that every white person on this planet is born a racist, and that it’s offensive if you don’t use their “preferred” pronouns whanever we interact with them. If you “mis-gender” them it’s harmful to their fragile little lives playing part in adult cos-playing or larping. None of these people are going to learn what it’s like living in the real world any other way than the hard way.
What you do and how you live your own life is nobody’s business but your own, but when you try to include me in your delusions and make me take part in this kind of insanity, my answer will always be no.

Doesn’t bother me, refer to me however you want, they’re just words. My philosophy is simple, leave me the hell alone, and I’ll do likewise. Try to force me to live my life according to your standards, and my response will always be the same, go fuck yourself. Twice if you’re really annoying.

Very well put, this 20 characters minimum is a pain in the ass.

My question was who is they? The context was your claim, I’m not scouring YouTube for you since it was your claim.

If I called you a bigoted nasty racist homophobic trump ass kissing fascist, I imagine it wouldn’t be something you’d enjoy, but why would I resort to deliberately saying things just to insult you? FYI the term “their little lives” is condescending bigotry, their lives are as important as anyone else’s.

Who are these people? What evidence can you demonstrate for your claim? What is the hard way? Why is it wrong to try and make anyone’s life less hard?

An oddly incongruous claim, alongside this thread and the rest of your post?

What delusion, and what are you saying no to?

I’m not seeing any threads here by transgenders challenging your right to self identity? I’m guessing the irony escapes you.

Who is forcing you to do anything?

Annoying is a relative thing, for instance your grammar there is making my teeth itch, but ordinarily I let it go. Can you guess why I have mentioned it this time? In fact I will spell it out for you. A grammatically correct post is something you can learn, whereas a person who suffers from gender dysphoria can’t learn to ignore it. I haven’t started a thread ranting about people forcing me to live my life reading poor grammar.


Yes. Her partner hated doctors. So died of lung cancer (non smoker) from diagnosis to death was 8 days.

Yeah, my whole family was horrified, including my dad. She died not long after.

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There are more advantages than just height. Bone structure for one thing. I’d be interested to see the hand size between transgenders and biological females of the same height. I think transgenders will come to dominate women’s sports, particularly the professional ranks where money is involved. If this does happen I think it will be a pretty clear sign that there is some advantage involved in being transgenger. I guess time will tell.

Couldn’t they just create a mixed team? Men, women, trans??? Seriously.

Have bio male, bio female and mixed competitions?

Then again, do various ethnicities within our species have advantages? You bet!!! AND thank evolution for the variety - gives us an advantage that at least some homo-sapiens will survive. BUT lol… they really could set up a third category within sports. I use to wonder about that when I was a kid and for fun we weren’t segregated.

Well - pulling my nose out. Sports isn’t really my thing (competitive or watching).

A far greater worry for me than fair competition, is safety. There is a lot to consider, and the more violent contact sports are an area that needs to proceed cautiously in my opinion. As always I hope for common sense, and as always I am not very optimistic.

Not to mention youth in some sports . EG Nadia Comaneci was 14 when she won her perfect 10’s in Montreal in 1976… The rules have been changed since then, so such young girls may not compete. I read that it is now almost impossible to get a perfect score in gymnastics.

As for trans athletes. Arguably they might do better in some local/state/national sports, such as hockey. Don’t know how they will go in the Olympics against say Russian and Chinese trans.

I’s a bit too soon to tell. Might take a couple of decades to get it worked out. In the meantime, I think things might get a bit fraught within some developed countries. I say developed because trans people may be less likely to be accepted in less developed countries, such as India. Plus, full gender reassignment surgery is very expensive.


***This is changing legally in India, where trans people are recognised as a third sex. Be most surprised if that were recognised socially, especially in the villages. Even though trans people have been known in India for centuries.

According to the 2011 census there were 4.88 lakh (488,000) transgender people in India at that time.

eeek I’m picturing the average adult female basketball, rugby, or soccer player up against the average adult male player, which would happen if the sport was mixed. What about sports like swimming and track? A woman competing in a mixed field would rarely win, or probably even place past the high school level. One on one like tennis or golf, women would never be in the top elite. The key to it having worked when you were a kid is that you’re still pretty well matched as children. Girls are even on average bigger than boys at age 12. Then the testosterone kicks in and boys shoot past girls. Testosterone is actually a known sports performance enhancer to the point that it’s use in pill or injectable form can get even a male banned from a sport. Which one of the reasons it’s debatable if a trans gender woman who has went through puberty as a male should compete with cisgender women. As of present, even taking female hormones doesn’t really reset that. It’s a complex issue and things could change. And, of course, it’s just my opinion. I’m wayyyyyy past my competing days (high school track and swimming) and wonder how women still in the game feel about it. It’s easy as an outsider, or just in it for fun to be okay with it, but for someone competing for a scholarship, possibly a paid position on a team, or prize money it would look different.

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I think you may be right at say high school/amateur level. Not so much at the elite level. Who knows? As I said, I suspect I think this may take a decade or so in Countries such as , Canada, UK and Australia, internally. Have no idea how long it will take to reach an international consensus.

The whole area of gender may become very confused indeed. EG What if countries such as say the PRC ,deeply Catholic countries in South America or African countries simply refuse to recognise the concept of trans gender? How would that work in international travel?

Of course it is fair. Absolutely fair. Why? Because those are the current rules. When the girls have enough of those men beating the shit out of them, they will ban together and say… “NO MORE.” Then the rules will change. The pendulum is swining. It’s going to go back and forth a bit before it finds a middle ground.

My personal belief. I don’t think it is fair at all. I am truely sorry you were born the way you were born. I fully get that there are levels of sexuality. Fact of the matter is… the bar is set way too low for my liking. (Yes… I am saying some people should not be legally (oficially) not socially, allowed to call themselves women and then compete with actual women. I would vote against any legislation permitting it.

A transgener is someone born as a male or female but identifies as the opposite sex. A person born as a male will have a male’s hand. A male’s build. A male’s organs. That is what it means to be born male. The “transgender” think is in the brain. These people fully believe they are a male trapped in a female body or a female trapped in a male body.

This is a very unfortunate belief system. Instead, I submit that they are a male in a male body who thinks they are a female trapped inside a male body. (This just fits the facts.)

I fully get that the prson wants to be female… Gee, it sucks to be told “NO” We really have no way at all to convert the person from male to female or female to male. Do what you want to do but be honest and learn to live with yourself. Be happy with yourself no matter what you decide to do. And if you are happy with yourself… You don’t need to hide. You don’t need to pretend. You just put it all out there for the world to see and LIVE IT.

I suspect that is a gross over simplification.



This apparent rise in toxic masculinity (for lack of a better phrase) scares me. I first became conscious of it maybe a decade ago. I like to play online games and from my perspective: one day that community just seemed to be magically replaced with men vomiting racists, sexists, and just otherwise incredibly false statements. More or less like @mr.macabre. :unamused:


I’m not sure why you’d call it a “belief system”? Gender dysphoria is very real, but I don’t think it is a pathology, anymore than being gay is.

Sorry but that sounds wrong to me, my understanding, which may be wrong, is that being male or female is part of who they are, the body they were born into is not. Your wording almost suggest they are delusional, and I think that oversimplifies gender dysphoria.

Sorry but again I have to disagree, I don’t think they have a choice here, what they want is to be themselves, and their biological birth is at odds with that, that is what gender dysphoria means. They don’t want to swith genders, they already are that gender, but their biological body is at odds with who they are. I’m happy to be corrected here of course, but that is my understanding of gender dysphoria.

There are a whole of host of things that we can do to help someone suffering from gender dysphoria to be themselves, just because we can’t convert people into another gender doesn’t mean there is “no way at all to convert the person from male to female.”

On that at least we can agree.

Most likely true, reliving the labels does not relieve the problem. Still, I think one might find the world a more accepting place. Overall agreement.

So, you are not the body you are born into? Well, I’’ be a monkey’s uncle! Oh! Wait a minute, that works! Of course you are the body you are born into. No amount of mind fuck can change that. This is the body you have, whether or not you like it.

body integrity identity disorder is a real thing. If I have a client who believes his right leg is not his, and so he amputates it at home in the kitchen, we call that crazy. My position is a simple one. You were in fact born into this body. This is, in fact, the leg you have. Yours or not, you get to find a way to live with it. There is no reason to cut it off. Now, with that said, should you choose to cut it off anyway, there should be a simple process for doing so. Some psychological testing. Living as an amputee for a bit. Exploration into the mental soundness of the decision by a rational third party. Then, as long as the person is rational, it’s their body. No one is advocating, holding anyone back. Alternatively, the goal is to bring it all out into the open and make it normal. FACT: I don’t care how many surgeries you have. You will never be a biological woman if you were born male.

Yes, the term transgender can be applied to people who belong to a third gender, It is a bit of an umbrellas term. However; we have other, more specific terms for people with other gender identities. Applying the term “Transgender” to them is a bit like saying, “I don’t want to talk about it.”

It would be like using the word “Homosexual” to describe anyone who has had sex with someone who is not of the opposite sex. Well, homosexuality comes in a whole lot of different flavors… So… yes, the term is being used loosely, but then are we not all arguing that Gender Identity is a very fluid concept. Aren’t we all asserting that we can not put people into boxes?