Ok, I’ll admit this might be a condescending troll situation.
Still, benefit of the doubt and all that.
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You read the replies? Wow, you didn’t read them very well. Must be nice walking around with your head up your ass.
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I am still patiently waiting for a reply to my simple and sincerely worded questions.
Edit crickets
Creation of the universe? You’re demonstrating you believe in Creationism. That is not a belief Atheists share. There is no evidence the universe was created. The best answer is WE DONT KNOW. I can already tell that you won’t accept that answer because you were indoctrinated into a religion that made you believe it was created. For all ANY of us know is the universe has always been here.
So you’re asserting we were already given evidence and didn’t recognize it. Wrong. We were never given evidence. Faith and the Bible are not evidence. The bible was written by men and then re-written by more men. It does not evidence a deity. The same goes for the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita. You Christians are not the only one who thinks the world revolves around your little man made religion.
God of the Gaps Fallacy. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Just because we don’t have evidence for something doesn’t mean a deity is the reason. Science doesn’t have all of the answers and that doesn’t mean science will NEVER have the answers. Science is all about studying and gathering the evidence to find the RIGHT answers. Not use ignorant answers out of a book written by a group of goat herders who didn’t know jack shit.
Obviously it ain’t you.
You’re the one whose afraid. You’re a believer. You’re afraid of a insecure deity of sending you to hell if you don’t do what it wants. Atheists don’t worry about that bullshit. Because we concluded that it’s not REAL.
Just our side? What about Muslims? What about Buddhists? What about Hindus?
They make fun of your religion too.
I was raised Christian and forced to read the bible. I know the book of Genesis all too well. I just don’t buy it. NO SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE. PERIOD. If you want to believe in fairy tales, that’s your choice. Not mine. If you want us to believe so badly, provide evidence for this god thing.
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Great. The topic when I joined this thread WAS the bible. I mentioned how you all were putting it down and wondered how you took it in a logical sequential manner to understand and thus how any of you made it past the first verse. The replies were NONE of you would attempt to. So let’s see if you were brave enough to show how you thought this through to explain how the universe started on its own.
“And approaching this in a sequential manner, first we must establish the validity of the bible. I am a skeptic, I do not accept tales without due diligence.”
There’s the FEAR factor again. You all were putting down what? The bible. Now you’re showing you can’t make it past the first verse. If it was not valid, then even the first verse would be wrong. You are running from that. Let’s see if you EVER address it…
“At best, the bible is a series of tales, each copies of copies of translations of copies with no original documents.”
And it’s a tale followed by more blah blah as you NEVER show even how the first verse was a tale! You all put it down, but you’re showing you’ve never really thought it through. So show that you thought it through. The first verse is a tale by your evidence of…
This is the typical thing that comes up how we got the universe on its own by this evidence…
“but how did God come before the beginning?”
That was NOT evidence how creation can come about on its own. It’s still running from it.
“A beginning is the start point, it is not midway or even near the start.”
Great, finally some thinking here. There was nothing in the physical realm and then it had to come into existence that never existed before. That is why it says in the beginning of the natural realm God created. That’s what created means in this context. Bringing into existence that didn’t exist before. Then the following verses make that clear that it’s talking about the physical realm. Did you miss that too? You sure did.
More about what you know that we got creation by natural means and the bible is just a tale…
“How do we know there is a god?
How do we know this universe was “created”? Proof please.”
I already showed, we have all this, it had to be created and that NONE of you can say with any evidence how it happened naturally. The bible is a tale to you but you can’t say how it is a tale. If there was no creation, the door was wide open for you to show your evidence that no creation was needed but you again run from giving that. The first verse has you stumped. Oh, and this was supposed to be the reply that answered…
“Fair enough, let us start at the beginning.”
I’m still waiting for you or anyone else to start. All you all do is keep on running from producing anything. You are all fast to criticize but have nothing to back it up.
“So Genesis 1:1 is contradictory and irrational, it lacks explanation and any evidence.”
No, it’s you and your friends that ARE irrational. You all can’t say how the universe started on its own to show the bible is a tale, a tale that you all mock but you can’t produce the evidence. AGAIN, make it past the first verse but you all can’t. That’s right, you can’t. You can run from it, but you can’t tackle the obvious reality, you’re all stuck.
“Personally I lean on evidence and logical thought. That is what keeps me alive, I look both ways before I cross a street.”
If you were logical you’d explain how we got creation on its own but all you do is run from reality so don’t flatter yourself.
F-ing, FINALLY, you come up with your evidence…
“This leads me to have good confidence on the big bang theory because the explanation is rational, uses evidence, and is not contradictory.”
The big bang did it. So tell me how your big bang created. You just keep on skipping parts so do NOT skip the only thing you ever gave. Give your evidence that the big bang is your answer to creation. Nothing there and then the big bang created…how?
You keep skipping how god was created, explain that to us?
Edit: since technically that would be the actual “beginning”. So there was nothingness and then just poof this god thing came into being?
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Can you demonstrate (no, not just showing words in a very old book, actually demonstrate ) that?
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Yes. Yes it had started to sort of drift that way.
Now there’s another drift. Your lead is being followed for now, though the patience of those contributing is wearing a little thin when it is only others who are being expected to satisfy demands that you’re making, in my observation.
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He’s only focusing on David for the moment, ignoring everyone else, repeating himself, and going in circles until he gets an answer he wants. That’s not going to happen. I’m honestly not surprised by this tactic.
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Any evidence sunshine, let’s not waste time with equivocation here.
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We did. You’re dismissing it. You’ve been asked to demonstrate evidence for the existence of a deity. Put up or shut up.
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I do have a theory for the existence of the universe. It was created by universe farting pixies. My theory has just as much evidence as yours does.
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Why do you think the universe started on its own? Can you defend your assertion? Still waiting!
What does the Bible have to do with the creation of the universe? Can you demonstrate any kind of connection at all? How are you going to validate each and every book contained in the anthology? We already know half of Paul’s books (Those attributed to him.) are forgeries. We already know that 80% of the words attributed to Jesus, ‘are not his.’ (Reference the Jesus Seminar Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels. ) And I am giving you the assumption that something called Jesus actually existed.
Which verse do you imagine is the ‘First Verse?’ Do you understand that “The Bible” is an anthology. A collection of books. The Bible is not a book. Not the OT or the NT. The oldest book in the bible is the book of Job. That means, the first verse is: 1. [1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Why do you have a problem with Job?
Um… What else would you call it? You goig to try and say it was ‘history?’ You got any evidence at all for your claim? Ancient Jewish tradition claims that the book of Job was written by Moses . No evidence exists for his existence. How do you get to a valid Bible?
Why do you keep insisting that the universe came about on its own? What in the fuck does that mean?
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IMHO:
Because, at best, he’s ignorant of currently accepted rational models on the subject.
At worst, he’s deliberately misrepresenting the situation to try and distract his audience into accepting his unevidenced position.
Good luck to you if its the second option there, John.
Johnny is a moron… tra la la la la laaa la, Johnny is a trollllll, tra la la la…
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How creation happened on its own since you believe it did somehow and no supernatural God was needed…and no, I didn’t make this up, this was actually evidence given to support your absurd belief…
“You keep skipping how god was created, explain that to us?”
“If you want to believe in fairy tales, that’s your choice.”
“God of the Gaps Fallacy.”
“There is no evidence the universe was created.” --Followed by the evidence it wasn’t created of…(blank)
“That’s gibberish, it’s your claim to believe a deity exists and that the bible has merit, then please demonstrate " objective evidence to support your claims.”
“No, that the known Universe MAY have had a beginning some 13.5 billion years ago is all we know at the moment.”
“What is this “creation” of which you speak?” --Wow, are you sure you want to reveal how behind you are?
“Ignorance. Sounding like you. Living a life in delusion. Wallowing in stupidity.”
“I need evidence for anything at all that is ‘supernatural.”
“So there was nothingness and then just poof this god thing came into being?”
“Can you demonstrate (no, not just showing words in a very old book, actually demonstrate ) that?”
“He’s only focusing on David for the moment, ignoring everyone else, repeating himself, and going in circles until he gets an answer he wants.”
“Any evidence sunshine, let’s not waste time with equivocation here.”
“We did. You’re dismissing it. You’ve been asked to demonstrate evidence for the existence of a deity. Put up or shut up”
“I do have a theory for the existence of the universe. It was created by universe farting pixies. My theory has just as much evidence as yours does.”
“Why do you think the universe started on its own? Can you defend your assertion? Still waiting!” --Hello, it’s YOU that must believe it happened on its own. Wow, that went right over your head.
“Because, at best, he’s ignorant of currently accepted rational models on the subject.”
“Still waiting on a response to my first question”
“Johnny is a moron… tra la la la la laaa la, Johnny is a trollllll, tra la la la…”
Thanks for the great comedy! Seriously, this makes for some good laughter. You all cut down the bible and NONE of you can get paste the first verse to give evidence how creation happened on its own naturally or how no creation was needed. Any of you are free to copy and paste the best answer WITH evidence that addressed that. You all just keep on running. It’s nothing new of your type, it’s the norm.
Now, AGAIN, you believe the bible is not correct, as you all clearly stated before I even joined into this thread. The ONLY bit of ‘evidence’ that even touched how creation happened on its own was the big bang. When I asked how the big bang created…(blank)…just another one continuing to run in fear. This is great comedy but also sad at the same time. Maybe the better word for it is embarrassing since you all have nothing to offer.
Thank you for responding Johnny. Your thesis is built on the flawed logic that you make an unfounded proposal, and since atheists are unable to match your proposal, you win by default.
You went to great effort to lay out that one should follow a rational and logical path, from beginning to end. Yet when I began to follow this path, from Genesis 1:1, your response was …
I am not afraid, not ducking and attempting to distract. I am the one sticking to the method you laid out.You failed to propose any counter to my question.
So I shall pick up and repeat, hopefully resuming our dialogue from the beginning of the bible.
Still waiting on a response @Johnny
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I’d say this is definitely condescension and trolling now, and flirting with patronization.
It’s also repetition of a discredited argument. And switching the burden of proof. And presenting a false dichotomy. I may be missing one.
A lively diversion at this point.
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Yes, I would LOVE to know how “behind” I am…give it your best shot.
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