What a rambling pronouncement of utter and complete nonsense.
If intelligence is found in human design (When humans design things)
Equally in other creation? WTF? What creation? Why do you get to insert Creation here? Do you mean the humans that created other things as well?
Then the human who did the creating, the creator, possesses intelligence and coordinated thought. The ape who uses a stick to get ants out of an ant hole also has intelligence and coordinated thought. Crows that figure out puzzles also have intelligent and well coordinated thought. WTF are you on about?
Talk about a begging the question fallacy, seriously how can you tack words like rational and logical to your rhetoric, and remain unabashed?
The creator?
Your use of begging the question fallacies appears to be relentless, even after they have been explained to you, that’s dishonest.
Let’s try this, I will number each time you made an unevidenced assumption in your argument, about the very things you are arguing for.
If intelligence is found in (human design)1, equally in other (creation)2, then (the creator) 3 (possesses intelligence) 4 and (coordinated thought) 5.
So five assumptions about the deity you’re arguing for, in that argument, and all while you assault our senses with claims your superstitious beliefs are rational, irony overload alert…
“Both theory and critiques are thoroughly analysed, with back and forths and in the end, only the more logical stand.”
And it was not Behe’s claim that was left standing. His claims to a supernatural designer placed his theistic hopes outside the scope of scientific enquiry and confirmation. In all his claims, books, stochastic research he has been repeatedly rebuffed by a steady barrage of scientific and philosophical evidence.
Behe insists that while agreeing with evolution generally, he just can’t accept that natural selection and genetic mutation can account for his favourite personal hypothesis, “irreducible complexity”. He invokes instead his “intelligent designer” who deliberately, mysteriously and invisibly supplies the required new mutations that allow the “purposeful arrangement of parts” and all without any direct evidence or relevant research findings.
Nor has Behe provided any example of any “irreducibly complex” organ that has failed, through the degradation of a mutation to the component part of the organism involved. He hasnt even satisfied the requirements for a hypthesis here as it is not based on any observation on which he could base it.
During the Kitzmiller vs Dover trial Behe grugdgingly admitted no recognised scientific research, study or experiment were or had ever been conducted and the reason is blindingly obvious. His “intelligent designer” and “grand mutator” is a euphemism for a supernatural entity. Science does not do supernatural.
Through distortion, ommission and selective determination, Behe has navigated a predetermined course around the requirements of real scientific investigation to arrive at, and not surprisingly, the altar of his chosen ‘God’. His attempt to deny such a ploy is an obvious thinly draped deception.
“You ought to have learnt that by now from the theory vs theory lesson.”
There is no “theory to theory lesson” in any of Behe’s claims. "Intelligent design" is not a scientific theory.
Its “creatiionism in a second-hand lab coat”, nothing more. Its another ‘god of the gaps’.
“There is so much overhwhelming complex complexity in this complex construct of complexity that, well gee, it can only said that something “beyond the natural” has occured…but no I dont mean my god…but what else could it be?”
For all the evidence submitted I could suggest “aliens” with equal authority.
“After all back and forths, Behe has successfully challenged a pillar of Darwinism, random mutation by demonstrating its impracticability. FYI, that upholds ID and deals a huge blow to Darwinism.”
Sorry Sorrentino, there is no “theory vs theory” here. For nearly thirty years, ever since Behe published his contention that natural selection and genetic mutation could not account for new modifications and that they could only lead to the degradation of genetic material, his claims have been met with a consistent and continuing flow of countering evidence from researchers and experimenters in laboratories and in the field.
During Kitzmiller vs Dover, Behe confessed he had, for quite some time, no longer participated in any actual experimental research other than some computer simulations, preferring to concentrate more on philosophical issues. And theological issues too, one imagines.
Behe at the very least has provided confirmation for the veracity of science and the theory of evolution by supplying yet another failed attempt to discredit both. The result was nothing even close to a “huge blow”.
Behe is a modern counterpart of Alfred Russell Wallace who could not accept natural selection could have produced the human brain which could only have been due to a “higher power” which he had the honesty of identifying as his ‘God’. Ironically Wallace remains a footnote in history after being declared by theists of the time to be the true “father of Darwinism” for eschewing the scientific method and accommodating their creator god.
Sorrentino, when you attack Darwinism, technically, you are attacking the pious Wallace. There is no modern Darwinism, there is only the theory of evolution.
Behe’s claims are so tenuous they have failed scientific and even legal scrutiny. You just need to suck it up and accept Judge John Jones summation in the Kitzmiller vs. Dover: "[W]e have addressed the seminal question of whether ID [Intelligent Design]is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents.” (Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District 2005)
I don’t recall evolution being falsified? Come to that the entire scientific world seems to have missed this paradigm shifting event.
Nothing on any news networks either, even the Catholic Herald and Al Jazeera seem to have missed this.
No Nobel prize awarded to Behe for “successfully” falsifying any part of species evolution.
Medical research globally still seems under the impression this is another ludicrous creationist lie, and all their research is still entirely predicated on the scientific fact of species evolution and shared ancestry.
You’re talking through your arse again, though it’s hilarious you think such an obvious lie will achieve anything beyond maintaining your lack of credibility on here.
I just had to quote this again, of all the errant nonsense creatards produce, this has to be the funniest howler of them all, and he produced it in his second post in this thread, dear oh dear…
Another priceless howler, how can anyone that ignorant be so arrogant about it?
And sorrentino genuinely doesn’t seem to know that a scientific theory has a different definition to the word theory…as well as believing scientific laws are are not tentative and open to revision.
Not only that Sheldon - but this poster feels (don’t they all) NO RESPONSIBILITY to back their own claims.
Time and time again, I have posted from “their perfect book” (of their choice) AND arrogantly, IT IS IGNORED!
Hahahaha … sorry @Sorrentino - you spend your time in “evolution” (great, maybe you’ll learn something) … I am going to keep posting great bible stories and lessons from your book, you know, to “learn” god’s perfect ways - hahahahaha
Welcome to the forum 111.
When and where and by whom has “science” ever been said to suggest the universe has, or even needed a designer? Can you supply references?
I recall Laplace telling Napoleon he had no need for a god in his mathematical work on the motions of the planets.
The entire scientific world seems unaware of this, but then that is probably because you are simply making up an erroneous unevidenced claim, theists seem to enjoy doing that.
I see the opposite. It is much easier to see how incredibly flawed and erroneous the various god claims are, as science peels back the unknown and we learn more about the universe.
Take Genesis: 6 days to create the entire universe? Before there even was a “day.” And do not go down the the word “day” is subjective route. If there ever was a word that is easily translated and well understood by everyone, the word “day” would be at the top of the list.
The 6 days genesis thing is still there because it was impossible to edit out w/o it being blatantly obvious to all involved it is being edited out because it is patently ridiculous notion that shows another obvious sign that genesis was written by humans with no input from some sort of greater being, and instead aligns exactly with the thoughts, technology etc of the people of the time that wrote it.
Indeed, and one cannot fail to notice that miracles and claims for a deity intervening in the material world, seem to have decreased in direct proportion to our ability to understand natural phenomena using science. Where shamans and witch doctors once held stupified illiterates in awe and terror at their deity’s power to produce an eclipse, now all they need is an almanac or a mobile phone with access to the internet to understand what is happening and why.
…and a camera. Cameras are everywhere. If a genuine miraculous event happens, chances are overwhelming that there is at least one person with a camera of some sort present to document it as it happens or shortly after. No wonder that the number of alien encounters have dropped dramatically as the density of available cameras have increased.
The quality of cameras has greatly increased as well.
Funny how many of the alien sighting pictures/video are a blurry pixelated mess, even though now in 2020 we have phones like the pixel 2 that can shoot amazingly clear video even at night in poor lighting conditions. With the new tech have we seen a surge in highly detailed clear images of aliens and their ships? Nope!
You got to wonder as high end cameras proliferate when these people that are convinced aliens are real based on blurry pictures begin to realize something is seriously amiss about these pictures remaining blurry and of poor quality.
Change God to Alien, Heavens to alien civilisation/spacecraft ect…
It becomes a tale of humanities first encounter, it also seems to make a lot more sense.
If we exist, surely life exists else where in the endless cosmos, haven’t the Russian government admitted the existence of multiple species of aliens? They also admitted Yetis aswell I think.
I would say surely that’s a pretty trust worthy source, but it is a government… I know for a fact the British Government can’t stop lying about near enough everything.
Apparently the Greys live in the direction Orions belt. (Men in black made a hell of a prediction there, if that’s true.)
Of course, all of this is probably just more misinformation on the Internet, I really never bothered to look into it all that much.
Any Alien race that observes humanity, surely would realise we aren’t mature enough as a species to join any intergalactic coalition.
***caveat for our Aussie members ; I suggest not to buy a Kogan phone. I bought one just over two years go,it has pretty impressive specifications. At $200 it seems like a bargain. It ain’t. With very modest use, the battery died at almost exactly 2 years. The battery cannot be replaced. A common legal scam these days. Now I have a Samsung Galaxy A50. Twice the price,and should last twice as long.
I would bet all my worldly possessions and everything I earn for the rest of my life, that there is some form of life elsewhere in the endless cosmos. We are real close to proof of life (at some point) on mars. With top scientist in the field saying it is only a matter of time.
I would also bet all my worldly possessions that no highly advanced intelligent alien being has visited earth in its flying alien ship anytime in the last 10,000 years or more.
Well that little bit right there tells you that it is safe to assume that “russian government” is full of shit.
Would love to see the real world data that lead anyone to conclude that. Five stars out of trillions upon trillions? At least they are in our “backyard” being a mere 1200 to 2000 light years away.
