It need not always divide of course, but to claim it doesn’t seems a dubious sweeping claim. Especially when you imply atheists can band together as a political force…
In the UK (as with other western democracies) being an atheist is not a barrier to public or political office.
There is no us, the anachronym is a subjective one you have created. The atheists on here are as varied as the cultures and countries that produce them, though we may share some views of course.
Indeed, anymore than we would expect to see those who don’t believe in mermaids as a cohesive group jockeying for political power, ironic really.
Again could you expand on what “more” means? This is a public debate forum, it is open to anyone from any country who can access it. The idea that a demographic like that would be sympatico, politically or otherwise, seems dubious.
Well there you go…
Precisely the point I have been making.
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While still living in Iran, Navabi founded the group “Iranian Atheists” on Orkut around 2003, to connect with other nonbelievers in his country. He was shocked, surprised and delighted there were so many others like him, and those feelings were mutual: “It felt like coming home to a family you didn’t even know you had.”[12] After some time, Navabi decided to try and reach atheists beyond the Islamic Republic of Iran, and created the contrastingly named page “Atheist Republic” on Facebook in January 2012. It was followed by the Facebook Group in February 2012 and the website www.atheistrepublic.com later in 2012 which as of July 2017 received approximately 5 million views per week.[7] Atheist Republic brings nonbelievers together from around the world, promotes LGBTQ and women’s rights and fights against the persecution of atheists.[9][10][13] According to Navabi, these liberation values, that AR seeks to spread, are under attack from Islamism, the alt-right and the regressive left.[8]
Humanists UK, founded 1896, is the largest such group.
Groups like Wales Humanists, Northern Ireland Humanists, Young Humanists, LGBT Humanists UK, Defence Humanists, and Humanist Students are all part of Humanists UK.
There are many local humanist groups around the United Kingdom, most being affiliates of Humanists UK and the National Secular Society. Of these, Leicester Secular Society has particular claim to fame in being the world’s oldest secular society, founded in 1851.[17] Others include North East Humanists.
Atheists of Florida – founded in 1992 to ensure the separation of state and church
Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, represents multiple Baptist groups (but not the Southern Baptist Convention) in supporting religious liberty and the separation of church and state
Camp Inquiry – summer camp run by the Center for Inquiry
Camp Quest – “The Secular Summer Camp”, a residential summer camp in the United States for the children of those who hold a naturalistic world view
Practice What You Preach Foundation – a “non-profit organization that builds bridges between faith communities and secular organizations in the Greater Los Angeles Area”
You are delusional. AR does what it does. It is not involved in US politics
. YOU MEAN LIKE THIS:
Have you even looked at the “Recources Page.”
This guy is a “TROLL.” Give me a break! How friging ignorant can a person be? It’s like being in a mushroom factory where all the little mushrooms sit in the dark and put out an odor of shit. He is flapping his lips and nothing is coming out. He has not taken the time to look around himself and see what is happening outside the darkness within which he dwells.
He can not give you specifics Sheldon. Not without demonstrating ignorance of the world around him.
Please explain to me what a public forum is for? Also how is it that you came into posting on this forum? Did I go and ask you to comment here? Did I place ads in your favorite entertainment platform, and you clicked the link by mistake? You clicked this forum because you thought there was something to be said about this topic. Maybe you are against it, not sure, you may think this is implausible or that the person posting this has malicious intent somehow and his credibility has to be questioned. I created this, so people engage with it, and being a Bengali, perhaps I like arguments a bit too much. I searched for similar threads and didn’t find any, so I created one myself, because I found it just as interesting that this didn’t already exist. I am finding out why, but I also believe there is an answer to how it can be done, and I think as (or if) more people engage with this, it will become more likely something clicks. I have clear idea on what I want, some ideas on how to get there which may be wrong or right but as you said yourself, what am I doing about it? I am talking, for now, then when I am able to move to a place where I can do something about it in a month, I will do more. I am not from a western democracy; I don’t have the luxury of free criticism. People have been wrongfully jailed for it and since I also have ambitions with my career, going to jail is not exactly my idea of achieving them.
Where I live and have lived has no signs of Atheist Republic activities. Thanks for throwing so many links at me with nothing to actually dispute my claim of AR not being involved in electoral politics. You accuse me of handwaving, yet all you are doing is posting links that although useful and point to incredibly admirable work, have nothing to do with disputing my claim that AAA groups are not doing enough in the electoral politics front.
I find people throwing around words like “Troll” and “ignorant” is quite similar to religious fanatics calling out “infidel” any time they can’t find things to say. You’re annoyed, I get it, try disengaging and cooling your head then coming back to post comments. I have not shown any disrespect to anyone here, I would urge you to maintain the same decorum.
I don’t know anything about AR? I have been waiting for anyone or any group to do anything where I live about wrongful convictions and murders of not just blasphemers but LGBTQ activists. Even if I didn’t know anything about AR, is that on me or on AR? If they and other organizations are so inactive in my vicinity despite everything that is happening is that on me or the organizations? I have tried joining local AAA groups, and guess what, they are so rightly afraid of having their identities leaked that it took two years for them to verify my application and I was able to join.
Before you call someone “ignorant” sitting in what I would assume to be a western democracy, please let me know what you know about Hindus and Indigenous tribes being falsely accused of blasphemy then jailed when they actually protest having their land stolen, or the convicted writers who criticized Mohammad’s pedophilia, or the ones murdered just because some people knew that they were apostates? It’s okay to not know, it’s okay to also not care because you think there is nothing that can be done about it. We Bengalis should sort it out ourselves, but if you are telling me there will be no benefit to a political front that can actually do economic damage to Bangladesh’s bottom line, put geopolitical pressure on it (since it is a democracy) or engage in dialogue with its politicians, it will not benefit the AAA community here? Do you think if political parties in the US start asking for AAA voters’ support, Texas will be able to enforce its abortion laws? These will not happen tomorrow, and these will not happen by saying nothing. You have to think before you act and organizing your thoughts through dialogue has been extremely effective for me.
At no point did I criticize AR, at no point did I undermine AR’s work, please point me to any such comments I may have made because I can assure you it was not intentional. I want AR to expand, I think they can, not just AR but EXMNA and other Humanist groups because we need political representation. Because guess what, the Shariah gang have political representation or will soon get them in your own Western Democracies, I am sure you have seen Navabi’s warnings yourself. If AR is so active in electoral politics, point me to the correct thread where this is being discussed and I will go there, because I couldn’t find one with the searches I made, but I could have been wrong. I will talk to @Sheldon about specifics on my reply to him.
I think first we look at how are we (yes, we AAA) are diverse. Almost everything, from race, background to economic class. We are incredibly diverse in thought as well, but would you dispute my claim that we are almost universally the same in principle when we talk about:
Freedom of thought and expression
Gender Equality
Democratic Governance
Race Equality
Freedom of and from religion
I get they are very broad topics, but if you look at movements like Marxism, do you see things in that which are any less broad? You think even in places like the US Freedom from religion is not something that can instigate AAAs to band together?
I also get Atheists who are not apostates will have far less in common regarding a lot of issues and apostates who are not apostates from Islam will have fewer things in common to unite them. We are both making assumptions here, I think there are a lot of people out there, since there are a lot of AAAs out there and gaining, who would agree on political consolidation, and I think it is as valid an assumption as yours that not enough will. I am asking this question and trying to see what’s what.
I also believe/assume there is a us and I am trying to put that assumption to the test. I am also of the assumption that we are inherently suspicious of participating in large movements because we understand the larger a political movement becomes the less autonomy you have of your own convictions and associating with such movement would put you in line with many of the movement’s ideals that contradict with your own. I am having a very similar dilemma with a lot of western feminist issues. We are suspicious and we have reason to be, but I also believe we don’t have to do as much as you might think.
I suggested swaying elections, what would that really take? Send messages to all AAA forums and their users through the forum’s content that at this location at this election this particular candidate whose policies are such and such requires this many votes. If the damn NRA can do it, so can we. AR and other groups simply need to keep track of demographic trends and elections, take help from commentators like Kyle Kulinski, who used to be a lot more AAA focused but I guess the left is a much bigger audience for political discourse, maybe even get Krystal and Saagar involved. These are not complicated things and if you are from other western democracies, I’m sure this strategy would work in your locales too. Nobody even needs to make contact with the political parties because they will figure out themselves what’s happening. This is not exactly hastagging all day and protesting out in the streets, which we should also do to show growing strength in numbers but not necessary to be politically strengthened.
Sure, being an atheist is not a barrier, but is it a strength? Would you say someone who admits to the public that that person is an atheist against someone who is specifically pandering to a religious demographic is going to have an advantage in the UK? I want it to be an advantage and it won’t help today, tomorrow or anytime soon but shouldn’t we have a strategy for when it might? What if there is a third of a population in the UK who are explicitly Atheistic at one point want an Atheist representing their nation? You think that is not of any benefit for the AAA community locally and globally to have such representation? I know Macron is an Atheist, I suspect Sanders is a Jewish Atheist but I have never heard them explicitly say it. Why not? Why would I accept listening to God Bless and Bismillah in speeches and addresses and not someone explicitly acknowledge their Atheist voting demographic or Agnostic or Apostate? It is not simply a matter of numbers it is also a matter of strategy.
Politics is a game and a game the religious have been playing for millennia, especially the Abrahamic religions. The reason I say we can beat them at it is I believe we have every play they have in their book out in the open, if we were to play then they wouldn’t know what we are up to. I think there is a sense of complacency in the left in western democracies, not sure where the AAAs stand on it but that’s the point of this discussion. I don’t remember who pointed this out but not all AAAs are leftist and that is also why AAAs need a distinct political presence, to distinguish us from the left and other political entities. The left ignores the Apostates because they want the religious vote base, don’t you think that is enough reason to ditch them and try to carve out our own political demographic?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha … And yet here you are… What a fucking joke.
Need Asylum? Keep Calm and Read on… How in the fuck is this not reaching you. Would someone flush the toilet plese?
Still have not checked out the resource page I see.
Another dweebish, ‘Faith Based Atheist’ is what I am hearing. Post something else completely inane. Winter is coming and the hot air is warming the apartment.
This is so fucking boring… Repetitious nonsense and a complete inability to see facts in front of his frigging face. I’ll just bet if we all had faith and believed in his BULLSHIT, we would really be impressed with the political snow job he is attempting to pull. Hey, let’s all light up those new torches we bought at Walmart. The ones we were saving for the Tin Man Halloween Ritual and follow M off into oblivion. We atheists need to ban together. Let’s all go to Washington and storm the Whitehouse, we can do it better than the fucking Trump supporters.
I understand your perspective, and it’s important to recognize that faith and organized religion are distinct concepts for many individuals. Faith can indeed extend beyond religious contexts and is often seen as a personal belief or trust in something, whether it’s a religious deity, a spiritual force, or even trust in oneself. Some people may choose to move away from organized religion because they feel that their faith is better expressed or understood outside of the confines of a specific religious institution.
For these individuals, it might be less about escaping faith and more about seeking a more individual, open, or flexible way to explore and express their beliefs. They may have concerns about the dogmas or rituals associated with organized religion and may find that their spiritual or philosophical journey is more fulfilling when not bound by the structures of a particular faith tradition.
People’s reasons for moving away from faith or organized religion can be diverse and complex, and it’s crucial to respect and understand the diverse paths that individuals may take in their spiritual or philosophical journeys.
You live in a predominantly Muslim country which is basically a Theocracy.
There is nothing those outside your country can do. Organizations that are much more aware of the political issues, as you said, can do nothing meaningful.
As an atheist, you need to keep quiet and continue with the support community you are engaged with.
Foremost is physical safety.
I empathize with your situation but your choices are endurance or leaving your country.
Yes, here I have been for a mere couple of days. That certainly makes it evident that AR and other atheist groups have been active in my vicinity.
Please explain to me what faith-based atheism is, since I have not used that word once or described any concept remotely related to faith, you must have a definition I am unaware of.
And what resource in the resource page? The ones completely out of my reach from my country of origin or the 555 member Facebook page? It may be enough in your book, and why wouldn’t it be, it’s not your country right? It’s not enough in mine. What am I going to do about it? Anything I can when I’m physically out of harm’s way in a few weeks.
I think you are having a conversation with yourself, at no point did I nor anyone in this thread make any indication of public demonstrations. In fact, I explicitly said we don’t need to head out in the streets to exercise political manipulation unless we want to show strength in numbers. I think you need to check how close your head is to your ass before you accuse smelling shit from others. If you think anyone here is trying to impress another than you ought to check your own motivations for being here, nothing will be achieved by impressing anyone here, this is merely a discussion which you appear to be deeply agitated while having. I have my purpose for starting this discussion and nobody is forcing you to participate in it. You are still welcome to regurgitate “faith-based atheist” and “bullshit” and fart smell euphemisms all you want if it serves some utility for you in any way, because replying to them certainly doesn’t for me.
Look dude, if you have something to say then say it, I don’t need the passive aggression, it wastes time. I don’t want asylum, if I did I would have applied a long time ago and if I wanted to run away I would have gotten married like my brother. I am not running away from my country, I am coming back and I am coming back with the spine to stand up to its bullshit. If you want to change something, you have to be successful and I intend to be as I complete my master’s degree and hopefully a doctorate. I am not abandoning my business here, I’m not abandoning my friends here and I am certainly not abandoning my hometown. They are all mine and I refuse to compromise on any of them because of bullshit laws and fanatics.
That is incorrect actually, Pakistan and when we were part of Pakistan was a theocracy but we became a secular democracy when we became independent…for about 4 years when it became a communist one-party government for a few months, then a military dictatorship, then a CIA puppet state then a military dictatorship AND a CIA puppet state then a democracy. A deeply flawed one but a democracy all the same.
I did keep my mouth shut but I did not hide, all my papers have me identified as an atheist and I am moving to Texas in January. I understand there is nothing others can do from outside Bangladesh, but maybe I can, or I can at least try, and I believe it can be done if AAAs have a strong political presence to put pressure on the Bangladeshi economy and geopolitics, ergo this thread.
Sigh…I posted those page links because you seemed to indicate to @Cognostic you didn’t know where they were. Thought I was doing you a favor, actually. But you jumped to the conclusion that I was being passive aggressive.
And, btw, you might want to harness your conclusion jumping. Please don’t call me “dude”.
I call everyone dude until corrected, it’s easier this way, I can’t think of anything more inoffensive. I did say a lot of things after “And what resource in the resource page?”, which I thought should have indicated that I was clearly making the point that after having gone through those links I did not find any to be useful enough for me. I wholeheartedly apologize and hope I don’t make any more mistakes moving forward. In the spirit of that, do you mean like “I’m not your dude, dude” or that you are not a dude or you’re just generally pointing out I am assuming everyone is a man when I am calling them a dude and at some point, I will encounter a woman and mistakenly call her a dude?
and continue with the support community you are engaged with.
I know, but one has to try.