The lack of proactivity is that we are yet to be acknowledged by political parties as a group that needs to be won over, whose policies have to be considered. Every example you gave are defensive, someone has something wrong happen to them and they get justice. That is amazing work, I wish we had this in my country of origin, and we have to go further. We have to have Governors and Senators asking these groups for endorsements, we have to have Caliphatist scum be afraid of saying apostates must be executed. Nobody can or should ban anyone from saying anything in a civilized society but saying such things should come with an economic and public backlash that proves too detrimental for them to make such statements. We cannot keep waiting for us to be wronged in some way to and then get justice, we have to have enough political clout to deter people from taking any action. We need representation and by your own words, the fastest growing segment of the American Population certainly deserves it. It’s also not just the US, it is globally one of the fastest growing movements and it has needed absolutely no help, but we have to start thinking about how to help it.
American Atheists is a non-profit organization in the United States dedicated to defending the civil liberties of atheists and advocating complete separation of church and state. It provides speakers for colleges, universities, clubs, and the news media. They are extremely active in Government and have made many changes in the laws of this nation.
American Atheists - Wikipedia.
The wiki has a long list of court cases this organization has taken on pro bono.
Humanists UK: Win a landmark court case - Landmark High Court win for humanist: judge rules he cannot be excluded from local RE committee
The American Humanist Association Politically challenges and wins a court case: The lawsuit was filed by the American Humanist Association’s Appignani Humanist Legal Center in May 2013 on behalf of local residents who objected to the government-endorsed religious message of the planned monument. Meant to honor war veterans, the memorial’s design prominently features the image of a soldier kneeling before a Christian cross. A U.S. District Court ruled in February 2014 that the city’s use of that design favors religion over non-religion, violating the separation of church and state.
FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION WINS FOUR LAWSUITS
• FFRF v. Antelope Valley Union High. FFRF, Antelope Valley Freethinkers and David Dionne sued the school district in April 2016 for refusing to advertise our freethought scholarships, while promoting religious scholarships. The case was victoriously settled within two months!
• FFRF v. Chino Valley School District. On Feb. 18, 2016, a federal court ruled strongly in favor of FFRF and our 22 eager plaintiffs against opening the board of education with prayer and bible readings. The board foolishly voted 3-2 to appeal to the 9th Circuit, but the district’s been ordered to pay $200,000 in legal costs.
• FFRF v. Concord Community Schools. We have a partial victory. FFRF’s lawsuit with “John Doe” families ended an egregious half-century tradition of public schools hosting a live nativity performed by students as part of a Christmas concert in Elkhart schools, Ind., as teachers read from the New Testament. In September 2016, the federal judge ruled against the live nativity. Stay tuned, as the judge said a non-live nativity at a school function is just fine.
• FFRF v. Brewster Co., filed in federal court in March 2016, made Texas Gov. Greg Abbott eat crow. Before our suit was filed, the governor insisted it was lawful for the sheriff to put crosses on the back of its patrol vehicles (for shame!). Bravo to Kevin Price and Jesse Castillo, both FFRF members and atheists, our brave plaintiffs. The crosses came down almost immediately and the case was closed by June.
• FFRF v. New Kensington-Arnold School District. FFRF won an appeals court ruling in August 2016, indicating ultimate victory in sight in its school Ten Commandments case. The 3rd U.S. Court of Appeals ruled in our favor that plaintiff Marie Schaub, who received FFRF’s “Atheist in a Foxhole Courage Award” last year, has standing as a mother of a student to sue over the 6-foot-tall Ten Commandments monument in front of a Pennsylvania high school. The case was remanded to the same judge who two years ago found in our favor against a similar monument at a junior high in Connellsville, Pa. We hope for a speedy final victory.
Show me this lack of proactiveness you are speaking of. Name the atheist organization that is not being proactive.
OH! And back on topic: None of this has anything to do with the concept of FAITH. Faith is a dead concept that leads to a dead end. It is not a path to truth. It is an excuse people use when they do not have reason.
You know what? Let’s stop the global woo woo bullshit talk. This group should do this or that, Society should… Politicians should… You are like an evangelist I once knew praying to god to alter the course of a tornato. Hey… I have the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldbFBXVajgM
Get off your global bullshit. Here is Atheist Republic. What specifically does Republic need to do that it is not doing. What specifically do you think I need to do that I am not doing. Do you think what you are doing is useful at all? You sound like a mindless zealot shouting at tornados. What are you doing to be proactive? You have all this advice. What specifically have you done that you think other atheists have not done? What ‘SPECIFICALLY’ do you mean by
What in the hell makes you think we are not helping? Where do you get off making that judgment? Who are you talking to? Who in the hell is your audience? The more you talk, the more ignorant your ideas sound.
Now who’s sounding angry. Atheist republic needs to identify politicians who are up for elections in areas AAAs have strong foothold and can sway the election to a candidate and ask the AAAs to leverage their votes for their ends. Next it needs to ask all its members if they would run for local office, anyone interested should be helped. More or less operate as a political party with an agenda and strategy, or at least create one. If I sound like an evangelist then you have never met political campaigner, and also maybe because I learnt from people within Islamic political movements. You can argue with my suggested means to try and achieve it, I am here to figure out that out too, but I find it surprising that you are arguing with wanting what I am wanting. More influence in politics for a group that has no choice but to adhere to democratic principles. I fail to understand the objection.
Amazing work, and legal battles is one of the pillars that empower a group, the other is political support, which is lacking in my opinion.
Two reasons I’d imagine, firstly atheists are not really a group, as has been explained they are a diverse collection of people with wildly differing views across a range of social and political ideas. Secondly they’re in a minority globally, and in many parts of the world being outnumbered by theists has serious ramifications for atheists who publicly declare their lack of belief.
Forcing change can be a dangerous pursuit, and the risks ought not to be taken lightly…some of us are lucky to live in parts of the world where religions can be challenged of of course, but others are not.
I think it was me, not Cog who said you sound angry. We are not a many-legged creature with one brain. Cog sounded exasperated to me, not angry.
My bad, I saw two replies and fast scrolling must have caught my eye with your thumbnail.
Whoa….AR needs to do specifically what you want? Wow!
Dude, the diversity doesn’t divide AAAs, not from what I have seen. I understand that AAAs are a global minority and I am not suggesting we will have AAA senators and heads of states tomorrow, but do you feel enough is being done to unify atheists, agnostics and apostates politically? I am using other religious groups and political movements as references but can you really say AAAs are soooooooo different from them that none of the things that worked for them will work for us? I am not even concerned about that at this point, I am more concerned about the reluctance really. I don’t see basic signs of coalition among AAAs which shouldn’t be the case.
I’m not the one who asked for “Here is Atheist Republic. What specifically does Republic need to do that it is not doing. What specifically do you think I need to do that I am not doing. Do you think what you are doing is useful at all?”
I’m here to strike up a discussion and see if there are ideas that come out of it. If it fails in this forum, I will try somewhere else and ask more people. Yes, I do feel Atheist Republic needs to do more politically, I could be, in fact very likely, wrong about how it needs to be done but yes, AAAs need more political weight, far more than we have now.
Nah, I don’t need to. I live in a pretty secularised part of the world, where the religious affiliation (or lack thereof) of politicians is largely a non-issue, even during election years. Whether a politician (or basically any other person) is an atheist, agnostic, humanist, pagan, christian, muslim, or a jedi normally doesn’t really matter. It mostly only matters if they bring their religious views out in public. And if they do, they will meet resistance.
That’s a very understandable position to take, I hope there are enough people out there who would leverage their vote to gain political strength to carry through a political movement because some parts of the world are not so lucky. I guess I am actually trying to understand why so many demographics have successfully consolidated politically and AAAs haven’t, and it can’t just be that larger proportions of AAAs have lives with purpose and not that much time to be politically active, I would like not to think that. Then you have Jewish people who have an incredibly large proportion of very successful people and yet they have produced leaders like Rabin, Meir and Sanders and engaged incredibly successfully in democratic politics. Maybe it’s because they figured out hiding is not an effective strategy, and their very survival depends on being politically active.
Because non-religious people come from all over the political spectrum, whereas religious people often tend to gravitate more toward the more conservative political parties? Thus, to unite non-religious people under a single political banner here would be like herding cats. In any case, that’s what we have organisations like the Humanist Association for, to promote the relevant issues without getting into party politics.
That is not a bad idea, but I think it’s clear I’m nowhere near an expert on the topic. However, I don’t see how we don’t have relevant issues across the AAA spectrum. Issues regarding democracy like the electoral college, AAAs wouldn’t get behind that? Freedom of and from religion, AAAs wouldn’t get behind that? Here’s one, protection of democracy where you treat conspiracy and plot to undermine democracy like blasphemy, you can’t live in a democracy if you don’t believe in it and I’m not suggesting you go and question every person if they believe in democracy but certain acts definitely would qualify as against democracy, like explicitly saying you don’t believe in the constitution for instance or you want to bring back the Caliphate. I really don’t see diversity as the deterrent here, will it take more time, maybe, but I don’t think there is a lack of fundamental issues that unite AAAs to form a movement.
Like I said, I live in a pretty much secularised part of the world. And being an atheist here is no big deal, and is largely not associated with any kind of stigma. And since you can live your life here largely without having religion forced down your throat, and not being exposed to massive religious propaganda, the incentives for a massive anti-religion front is mostly not there. Atheist organisations exist here, but they are rather small(*). They used to make a lot more noise about important issues a few decades ago, but since those fights are mostly “won”, the issues raised today tend to be more narrow special interest topics. Thus, there is less incentive to join such organisations.
(*) I’m not counting the Humanist Association in here. But that is a pretty big organisation. But I think they lack focus, so I’m not a member.
The rest of the world hasn’t though so it probably will appeal to others.
@Muntakim.avenginggod, please indicate to whom you are replying. It makes following along much easier.
@CyberLN Why doesn’t the reply button automatically do that? Anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
