Let’s say you’re having dinner with a devout Christian who is annoying about their beliefs and thanks their “god” for everything. Suddenly they start choking to death on a piece of food. Do you ask them if they want you to pray to their god for them or ask them to consent for you to do the Heimlich maneuver?
2 Likes
Would I save a Christian? Geee… Hmmm… 
Simple answer: Yes. (And, I might add, a rather ridiculous question.)
2 Likes
Already have. Many times over. Also sat with them outside the emergency room while their kids, wives, mothers, fathers, and husbands died. I’ve beem around some weird shit.
2 Likes
Now for my extended answer…
I have saved and have helped save MANY people over the years. Funny thing, though, is that the thought of asking them about their religious beliefs never did cross my mind at the moment I was saving them. Gosh… Silly me. How could I have forgotten such an important question? Du-OH! 
In my defense, though, with everything happening during those moments, I suppose my simple little brain was just too focused on helping a fellow human being in a dangerous situation. I mean, sure, there were those I already knew their religious preference. And, yeah, there were likely many who were praying out loud and crying to God for help and such things during the incident. But, again, my puny brain can focus on only one thing at a time during such stressful moments. Typically, that one thing being, “I really need to help this person who is in danger.”
Who knows, though? Maybe one day I will be lucky enough to have your advanced mental capacity, allowing me to be aware enough to ask a person his/her religious preference before I save them.
2 Likes
Yep! (20 characters long just to meet site requirements)
Of course I would. Its not my fault they are delusional but he is a human being regardless of it.
It would hurt and I would have to respond abruptly if he said “thank God you were here”.
1 Like
Of course. Religious beliefs are not a reason to make them die when you have the chance to save them. I don’t care if they are atheist or not. Anyone who saves a person based on whether they believe in god or not is a CRIMINAL
1 Like
You are right, Sarthakiii. This question about saving a person’s life represents the whole point of morality.
Everyone has a moral right to live. That implies everyone else’s moral duty to NOT take that life. But it’s not that simple: There are times when killing a human is morally justified (e.g., self-defense; during war; execution; even suicide).
Further, there are instances when NOT saving someone’s life is immoral. If there is no risk to your safety involved by saving someone’s life, then it is immoral if you fail to attempt to save the person’s live. And you deserve to be punished for your negligence.
Morality is as logical and impartial as arithmetic —>
1 Like
Have you ever had an origial thought or is your life one big meme. Do you not see you have contradicted yourslelf?
You also listed (FOUR) times.
A. Stout is WRONG. Morality is not a system and human beings are not born with inalienable rights.
There is no point in continuing. I would be arguing with Stout and not you. You don’t seem to have your own opinons.
1 Like
Morality 101: What a heap of shit. Trite nonsense.
1 Like
Not ONE of your “replies” makes any sense, nor do you even attempt to offer any explanation for them. Wow. I thought you were an atheist—one who valued rational thinking. But you just throw out slurs and offer nothing to substantiate a word you write.
I would love to hear you try to justify any one of your remarks, above. Indeed I dare you.
Sweet mother Mary.
To steal a previously used phrase - did we just agree on something big??
1 Like
Cognostic: Here is how you always reply to logical assertions:
- That’s bullshit!..
- Your mother wears army boots!..
- Oh YEAH?..
And your latest cogent reply: " What a heap of shit."
Your insults betray you for who—and what—you are: a simple-minded, bully with nothing to say or to contribute. Pathetic.
Goodbye, little man.
ONE: (Because I don’t have time for more of your inane bullshit, simpleton assertions, inane juvenile view of the world, and outright idiocy.
Your assertion was: “Empathy is the Foundation of morality.”
This is not, nor has it ever been the case. Human beings are social animals. Empathy may be a basis for morality assuming you have a person who is empathetic. Men by their very nature have always been less empathetic than women and empathy in men has evolved over the years, even in my generation.
There is no one root for moral behavior, but even if there were, it would likely not be empathy. Early childhood attachment, social learning and mores, along with the ‘time’ to be moral, are all equal foundations for moral behavior.
SOCIAL LEARNING IS THE ROOT OF MORALITY
Let’s begin with the fact that human beings are hard wired to be social animals. Our survival as a species is based on belonging to the group. Belonging to the group means learning and adopting the morality of the group. It entails being conditioned by the group. Failure to adhere to social norms or moral values of the group in which one finds themselves will result in punishment. Punishment comes in the form of ostracization, (banning or shunning), imprisonment, jeering and name calling, or even death. To be a part of the group, a human being must learn to be moral. Learning is the Foundation of morality.
FEAR IS THE BASIS OF MORALITY
Why are people so attached to their groups? They don’t know what is out there in the great beyond. A human being in the wild, surviving on his or her own, is nothing but a weakling hamburger. They don’t have the claws or the lion, the stealth of the tiger, the size of the elephant, the strength of the bull. Humans can’t fly, they can’t run, and they don’t swim very well either. Along in the wild they are prey. Fear of removal from the group is the basis of moral behavior. This is the core of religious indoctrination in the Christian world. Believe with us and stay with us. Meet your friends and family in the afterlife. Be one with God. That, or face damnation and isolation in the torture, pain, and everlasting fires of hell. (The mildest version of hell is simple annihilation. You cease to exist while those who believe, gather at the river.) Fear is the basis of morality. Fact of the matter is, sociopaths are capable of acting morally within a system. The Root of Morality is FEAR
SELFISHNESS IS THE BASIS OF MORALITY
People want shit. The way to get it is to go along to get along. Really simple and no empathy required. One could even go as far as to say greed was the basis of moral behavior.
SCIENCE IS THE BASIS OF MORALITY (Well Being)* (My personal leaning.)
Defining morality in terms of human and animal well-being, Sam Harris, argues that science can do more than tell how we are; it can, in principle, tell us how we ought to be. In his view, moral relativism is simply false—and comes at an increasing cost to humanity. Once ‘Well Being’ is defined as a goal, objective moral decisions towards the achievement of that goal are clearly defined. Well Being and science are the basis of morality.
EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY IS THE BASIS OF MORALITY
2.3 Explaining the Origins of Morality: From Psychological Altruism to the Evolution of Normative Guidance
Kitcher (2006a,b; 2011) has proposed a three-stage account of the evolution of morality. (The article is fascinating. It’s a shame you will never read it.)
Stage 1: It begins with the evolution of an early but fragile form of psychological altruism among hominins in the context of “coalition games” in mixed adult groups. The social structure would have been similar to that of contemporary chimpanzees and bonobos, where cooperation among the relatively weak (or those in weak stages of life) is beneficial to them.
Stage 2: The next phase, according to this hypothesis, was a transition to much larger groups with more extensive cooperative activities, through the evolution of a capacity for emotionally laden normative guidance … With the emergence of a capacity to make and follow normative judgments, reinforced by coevolved reactive emotions such as guilt and resentment, and the development of rules and social practices promoting and enforcing group loyalty and cooperation, a new psychological mechanism came into being for reinforcing the previously unstable altruistic tendencies and promoting large-scale social cohesion and stability.
Stage 3: In the final phase, this sort of “proto-morality”of norms and reactive emotions would then be supplemented over thousands of years with various paths of cultural evolution , leading to the development and fleshing out of the much more sophisticated systems of moral beliefs, practices and institutions with which we are familiar, from the earliest historical examples right up to our present moral cultures (Kitcher 2006a, 2011).
MORALITY IS DICTATED THROUGH RELIGION OR POLITICS
I pair the South Korean Political system and others like it with religious dictates, beliefs and dictated moral systems. Absolute moral behavior is dictated from a power on high. This is distinct from ‘objective morality.’ Absolute morality, is influenced by the system in which it occurs and by which God or Leader is espousing it. God or the Fearless Leader is the Foundation of morality.
***PLURALISM AS A CAUSE FOR MORALITY: ***
Basic premise: Moral behavior has more than one cause.
2 Likes
I would suggest that if I were in a position where I needed to act quickly to save someone’s life, there wouldn’t be an opportunity to find out any details other than “was I successful or not?”
As a corollary, I suspect I would only find out about the religious beliefs of the individual in question some time after the event. Hopefully after being successful in saving said individual’s life.
I sure hope he didn’t hurt your fee fees too much Cog.
2 Likes
@Andy-Stout I agree on some of your positions, but you are coming across as a religious fanatic too. I see moral dictates, rules one MUST follow, and intolerance against opposing viewpoints.
So I ask this question:
Notwithstanding the belief in a god, what is the difference between you and some rabid fundamentalist who demands everyone follows specific laws they have decided all must follow?
Who made you god?
1 Like
I wonder if this isn’t just some rhetorical nonsense asking this question. It smacks of the theist notion that morality cannot exist without a god belief.
Of course I would save a Christian’s life. Who the hell else am I going to argue with? Cog is getting upset and throwing a fucking tantrum so there’s that.
1 Like