Why do atheists constantly critique religion and assert truth claims even though they have no way to ground their own epistemology?

Debate Room
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However, it’s time once again to inject some rigour into the debate.

Those of us who treat the relevant questions seriously, understand that the question of whether or not a god type entity in the most general sense actually exists, is an unanswered question. We know this because, if a proper, genuine answer had been provided in the past, said answer would now be part of our universally accepted mainstream body of knowledge, with only a few wilful contrarians rejecting said answer.

However, the existence of a god type entity as a concept, is a separate question from the existence of particular candidates for the “god role”. It’s at this point that we are in a stronger position, with respect to rejection thereof. Quite simply, any candidate presented, that is also asserted to possess contradictory or absurd properties, can be rejected on that basis alone without further ado.

That’s where the mythology fanboy butthurt starts coming into play, because all of the weird and wonderful members of the “god zoo” than humans have invented, fall into that category. They are all asserted to possess contradictory or absurd properties, and are all candidates for the bin as a corollary.

Needless to say, the mythology fanboys don’t like this one bit, and the moment this is pointed out to them, the response is predictable - the duplicitous ex recto apologetic fabrications and misrepresentations of atheism, start flowing like the effluent they are.

The concept that mythology fanboys wilfully misrepresent at this stage, is that dismissing their candidate does not mean dismissing the existence of a god of any sort. The dismissal is specific to their choice of cartoon magic entity from their choice of mythology. We can dismiss their cartoon magic entities, while still being open to the possibility of a god type entity existing. A god that does not emanate from blind mythological assertions, a god that is either consonant with known physics, or provides consistent extensions thereto, is a far more acceptable candidate, but of course such a candidate won’t satisfy the emotional demands of mythology fanboys.

Even then, we are still in the realm of requiring evidence, even for a reasonable candidate. Without which, even a reasonable candidate is merely speculative.

That I have to repeat the above exposition every so often, points to the gross intellectual indolence of mythology fanboys, as well as, in numerous instances, their mendacity.

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My guess is that his intelligence – or at least his self-awareness – is key. He can step outside himself and see his beliefs as distinct from his identity. And of course the flavor of Christianity will make that harder or easier depending on how tribal its emphasis might be. It’s a good sign that he has been in various denominations, too, instead of the same-old, same-old all his life. The lifers are the worst.

My oldest of my three brothers, who died 20 years ago, was another type of fundamentalist who was an inherently happy and affable person who seemed incapable of judging others (that was his wife’s department, lol). The dysfunction that bound him to the faith was a deep sense of shame for things he did in his youth. Nothing remarkable or gross, really pretty standard-issue wine-women-and-song stuff, but the church convinced him that he had been particularly degenerate and his salvation from it quite miraculous. When he got that fatal cancer diagnosis his first and last reaction was that god was punishing him finally for all that – so the “forgiveness” wasn’t very potent apparently.

By contrast my next-oldest brother is still a staunch fundamentalist and QUITE capable of judging others. I guess much depends on personality and how one interacts with all the turgid nonsense they are raised in. But both of those guys came to the faith later in life – the deceased brother in his early 20s, the still-fundamentalist in his late teens. So they had even less excuse than I did for being credulous about it (I converted at age six).

You are right though that if the faith resolves to a basically live-and-let-live stance, there’s no huge obstacle for fully enjoying the filial bond. I’m happy that you have had that. The youngest of my brothers is rather like that, but a more restless sort of person who never really was a joiner and so simply drifted away from a practicing faith altogether, eventually married a lapsed Catholic, etc. He and I are definitely the closest of the brothers. My fundie brother doesn’t understand why that is. He would never look at his own self-righteous behavior as having anything to do with it. So it goes.

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Oh, dear. If only that were true. Sadly, though, his faith in his bible/god IS his identity. His whole life is built around being a good and faithful Christian. Again, it truly baffles me sometimes. In ANY OTHER aspect of daily life, he is a logical and critical thinker. He is a very smart guy. Not only that, he is FUNNY. Great sense of humor. We can joke around with each other about pretty much anything. He was a firefighter for most of his life and was also in the military for many years with an Iraq deployment where he was primarily doing convoy security missions. Saw some action over there, too. They even lost a few guys. Regardless, he maintained a healthy mindset through it all (so far as I know), and we almost got to deploy together after I transferred over to his unit right as they were getting ready to deploy about 3 years later.

Unfortunately, by then, he started having some severe health problems (heart and lungs) related to the last deployment, and he was forced to get out of the military before we deployed. By the time I got home from the deployment, his condition had worsened to the point he was on continuous oxygen and could barely walk up a small flight of stairs without being exhausted. (And this is a guy who was once able to easily run 6-7 miles while wearing a combat vest during his daily workouts.) Needless to say, it was difficult for me to see him deteriorate like that. Amazingly enough, he’s still hanging in there, though. We still keep in touch from time to time, even though it’s been several years since I’ve actually seen him. Anyway, enough of that for now.

Bottom line is, it is fascinating to me the disconnect most Christians have when it comes to their god and bible. How the logic and critical thinking apply to EVERYTHING ELSE in their lives EXCEPT FOR their religion. In some odd ways I can understand it, having struggled with it myself for so many years. On the other hand, there is that part of my that wants to scream, “HOW do you NOT SEE how ridiculous it all is?!?” But, like you said, “So it goes.”

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If he is able to at least mostly not judge you or others for not sharing his beliefs then he’s not SO wrapped up in that identity that other people simply not agreeing is an existential threat. That was my only point.

My brother is judgy and doesn’t even know it. He’s also drinking at the MAGA disinformation trough and is “anti-woke”, etc. He’s smart, too, he was a research scientist at Honeywell for years and designed weapons systems for the military – heads-up displays in fighter jets, torpedo guidance systems and such. But with regard to religion and politics his brain is oatmeal now, sadly. I am pretty sure he’s also an undiagnosed Aspie and that contributes to his rigidity of thinking and his need for certitude.

Even with all that he adopted two NIcaraguan kids in addition to raising his two biological children and opens his home to needy people (Christians only!) who need a place to stay. He’s not without redeeming characteristics. It is just hard to have a conversation of any length that doesn’t devolve into religion or MAGA politics, so we are down to talking on the phone about once a year or when there’s family matters we need to discuss like the fact our other brother is in hospital right now.

Funny story, he visited that brother at the hospital (they live in the same city) and after he and his wife left, the nurse commented, “wow, they are sure religious”. Imagine having that on your tombstone: “Here lies Tin-Man – he sure was religious!”. A badge of honor or of shame depending on your point of view.