Why Are Theists So Closed Minded?

Huh?
God maybe a universal subject, but not everyone in this world believes in the same god. Open your mind and do some research as there’s 3200 known religions in this world. There’s millions of gods, but none have enough evidence to say they are true.

Don’t get me wrong there’s also not enough evidence to prove a god doesn’t exist. But one can also not be proved either. See also God on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

In any-case to make this simple. A god (deity) can neither be proved nor disproved. But more scientific and physical evidence still points to no.

If you are a Christian think about this, that’s one in three thousand two hundred religions in this world. So my brain said hm. Either they are all right somehow and are referring to the same god, or none are probably right and there’s possibly no god at all.
Again to place it simple,

"Don’t get me wrong there’s also not enough evidence to prove a god doesn’t exist. But one can also not be proved either. See also God on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God "

We are atheists because there’s no evidence for a god. We accept there’s not enough evidence to disprove one either, we just choose not to believe in any god.

Until only a few centuries ago, people did not distinguish between the real world and the spirit world. Some still don’t.Some undeveloped tribal societies, christians and like that.

Religion has been used to understand,to provide feelings of meaning and of course control. Human beings have always spend vast amounts of time and everything they valued (including each other) trying to appease and therefore control the gods and spirits. The world was a very hostile and dangerous place. Infant mortality was very high and people died young. Certainly until about 200 years ago in developed countries.

Still today millions of people spend vast amounts of time on ritual,such as the mass, holy days, and of course praying constantly .

In the nineteenth century Mormons were taught that there were people living on both the moon and the sun.

Tens of thousands of believers still make a pilgrimage to Lourdes hoping for a cure. Since 1858,church has recognised a total of 65 miracles.Not one regrowth of a missing body part.

Today many of the hoi poloi in my country (including me) have only a rudimentary understanding of science and the material world.Many continue to learn all of their lives. Many have no curiosity or have different priorities,such as getting enough to eat.

Even in our society there still large numbers who still believe the most rank superstitions and retain a steadfast willful ignorance . EG Literalist Christians whose close mindedness MUST shave 20 or 30 IQ points from an already modest score.

Yet I have no right to feel smugly superior,because I’m not. There is an unimaginable amount of level knowledge today possessed by human beings. I have what was considered a deep knowledge of perhaps three areas—35 years go. Not only have I forgotten most of it, I’m simply out of date.

So,I freely confess to being a dilettente .However, my curiosity remains intact,and I continue to learn.Often,I learn from being here or am at least am motivated to go looking.Most recently it’s been the work or Richard Carrier. It’s worth contending with the occasional arsehole

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I see no bias, Nyarl is clearly treating all god claims the same, so that’s unbiased by definition.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate to support your bias in favour of one god claim, over all the others?

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If one sticks ONLY to your headline – “Why Are Theists So Closed Minded?” – and ignores all the unfounded blather that follows…

The answer would be: Show us,SPECIFICALLY, why you claim they are…and we can discuss it.

Otherwise, we wind up yakyaking, in the usual manner, about tangents and words.

Good example of “closed minded”.

Sorry, I ignored the rest of your unfounded blather…

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It’s an excellent question. It occurs to me that most Christians, Jews and Muslims and probably followers of other religions, hardly give their faith much thought and are not in fact closed minded. What you refer to are the minority who engage with non-believers and seek to defend their religion or even to convert others.
These people are utterly convinced that they are right. Their faith not only brings them comfort, it is an integral part of who they are. It informs every aspect of their lives and indeed gives their lives meaning. They could no more live without their faith than fly to the moon.
Imagine then, such an individual being asked to reconsider everything they have ever known, to review your evidence that their holy book is clearly nonsense, to allow you to demonstrate the fact and to listen openly to your argument that all their life they have been wrong.
Is it really surprising that they are closed off?

That is why, as atheists we must decide if we are happy to simply leave it alone or if we wish to engage with these people. If we choose the latter, we must understand the mindset we encounter and accept that mockery and a superior attitude will never succeed.
If we wish to truly expand the mind of a believer to the point where our reasoning becomes clear to them and they begin to question what they have been taught, we must approach them with kindness, patience and respect, for them but not their ideas.

We get all types - of approaches with both.

Lol! Mockery…

Hang around - I love me some trolls and calling out bullshit on arrogant asses.

Interesting idea. Can’t say I’ve ever seen any evidence demonstrating that idea.

But then, I was brought up Irish catholic.

The people of faith I’ve known have been about as rational as anyone else about most things but not religion.

Religious belief is based on faith, not facts and not reasons. Jesus himself is reported as saying: John 20:29 “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.” (KJV)

Believing without seeing is a pretty good description of superstition. I’m unable to accept that people who believe anything on faith alone are open minded up such beliefs.

Further , I have not so far come across a person of faith who is willing to concede the possibility of error.

IMO religious beliefs as well as one’s world views are accidents of birth. That those things are absorbed uncritically before the age of reason. They become part of one’s personal culture. As such neither one’s religious beliefs or world views are ever seriously questioned by most people . IF that were the case, I’d argue that the number of atheists would not be restricted to only 13% of the world population.

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That is something that amazes me. Looking both ways before crossing a street, negotiating a mortgage, setting a budget, the thousand and one things we casually do in our lives are rational acts. Unless they state it to all, one cannot differentiate a theist from an atheist. But as soon as the god equation enters the picture, it appears theists turn of the rational part of their brain.

Additionally I am of the opinion that religion is the greatest con of all time, and thus I bear no animosity towards 99% of all theists. They are not stupid, they are not evil, they do not even have an agenda. They are just good people trying to live a life like just you and me.

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I fully agree with your point regarding accident of birth. I have said to a number of deeply committed religionists that they would be equally committed to a different faith had they been born elsewhere.

You are also right, of course, regarding faith. By definition it is belief without evidence. Based on the Bible quote you gave, the Christian church teaches that faith itself is a virtue. That it is a good thing to abandon your reason.

When I spoke of the majority of believers not giving their faith much thought, I perhaps should have added, because they are almost never called upon to question it or think about it. I don’t mean to suggest they are not committed but that they perform their religious duties without ever analysing them. That is why you are again spot on when you refer to people of faith being rational in other ways except religion.
The problem, as I see it, is two-fold. First, you have the vast majority, who live cocooned and are never asked to question their faith. Second, you have the apologists and evangelicals, who are so deeply entrenched they will not and cannot accept even the possibility they might be mistaken.

Finally, I agree with your assessment of the numbers of atheists. We are not born with religion, or faith. It is taught by voices of authority; parents, community, preachers and as such is accepted in the same way as don’t touch the fire or don’t play in the road.

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I agree that the loss of hope can crush most people. However, people are very resilient and will often surprise both you and themselves.

People survived for a long time before the Abrahamic faiths arrived with many different gods, great and ordinary. Have look at say the Roman pantheon, or perhaps today’s Hindu pantheon.

Hinduism and Buddhism teach that we are each responsible for our own salvation/nirvana, not any god who will forgive us our sins. That there is no forgiveness, only karma whereby we each pay for our wrongdoings .

In my opinion the most destructive experience for any human being is the loss of love, which in turn can lead to a loss of hope.

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An odd claim from someone who has claimed on here that word definitions are not to be found in dictionaries, and who has subsequently refuse to to answer all enquiries as to where he thinks they are to be found if not in dictionaries?

You also made this claim:

vicillindenAtheist

Sep '20

Good try…but C- …

DISBELIEF and UNBELIEF are VERY different concepts.

When I pointed they were synonyms, and the only difference was that unbelief specifically mentioned religion in its definition, you made the asinine claim that"

“Disbelief is “There is NO god””.

It has been in vain to ask you to evidence that assertion. So your demand here for clarity is pretty ironic.

So I think if you’re going to demand clarification you can either admit you were wrong, or offer evidence, beyond the petulant ad hominem I received thus far.

Link to your post.

If you think sneaking off and coming back at long intervals will make this go away without you showing some integrity here, then this is another thing you’re very wrong about.

Have the courage to admit an error, or no one will respect you.

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We are not close-minded.

Ohhh yes you are! :joy:

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Since all you’ve ever offered are cryptic one liners who can say. Who’s “we” for a start? Your profile says atheists, is this even true?

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Awwww David…
I was gonna sit back and watch Randomhuman own Fievel. And you had to go and stick your big intelligent nose into the mix. WTF… I know for a fact that randomhuman has met his match now. FUCK! I’m gonna go hang out in another tree. You took all the fun out of this one.

The very fact that mythology fanboys cannot agree with each other on a global scale, which of the numerous mythologies humans have concocted is purportedly the “right” mythology, and that adherents of a particular mythology cannot agree with each other what said mythology is purportedly telling us, is merely one of many reasons I regard mythology fanboyism as fatuous.

The presence of risible elementary errors in several of those mythologies, also refutes the assertion that the mythologies in question were the product of a fantastically gifted magic entity, purportedly possessing vast knowledge far and beyond the knowledge that humans have acquired through several centuries of diligent intellectual labour.

Try informing mythology fanboys of these elementary facts, and the response varies from evasion, to duplicitous fabrications. Neither of which would be needed if the assertions being treated as “sacred” by said mythology fanboys enjoyed any genuine evidential support. Indeed, the hilarious and pathetic anti-consilience I’ve just described above, would not exist if any of these assertions were supported by genuine evidence.

Likewise, pointing out the observable fact, that several million peer reviewed scientific papers point to testable natural processes being responsible for the universe and its contents, not a cartoon magic man from a pre-scientific mythology, elicits a whole range of similar evasions and fabrications from mythology fanboys.

That’s before we move on to the manner in which mythology fanboys try to hand-wave away scientific discoveries, by peddling mendacious strawman caricatures of scientific postulates, as if said caricatures constituted the reality. “Atheists think the universe came from nothing for no reason”, anyone? This example fails to attain the level of competence required to be worthy of a point of view, because it isn’t “atheists” who present alternative cosmological theories, but cosmological physicists, and if mythology fanboys can’t even deduce this elementary fact correctly, the only reason we need bother with their caricatures, is out of respect for proper discourse and the need to dismantle outright lies.

That’s before we point out that said cosmological physicists, once again, postulate testable natural processes, involving well-defined entities and interactions, to be the basis of the origin of the universe. Likewise for organic chemists researching the origin of life, and biologists researching the origins of biodiversity.

Quite simply, the whole mythology fanboy enterprise is characterised by a venomous combination of wilful ignorance and discoursive mendacity. I’ve seen enough of it in 13 years to recognise the foul stench from a very long distance whenever it puts in an appearance. Just visit any atheist page on Facebook, and see particularly lurid examples thereof on display, in abundance, for the requisite taxonomists to catalogue, being peddled by mythology fanboy gatecrashers.

Indeed, among the other examples of scurrilous mischief I and others have observed, is the manner in which mythology fanboys routinely peddle the verminous and pestilential well-poisoning myth, that those of us who don’t treat unsupported mythological assertions uncritically as fact, instead of applying the rules of proper discourse to said assertions, instead purportedly possess all manner of cognitive and ethical defects, several of which are more properly to be found as part of the makeup of the same mythology fanboys peddling said myth.

Far from being a totem of “righteousness”, mythology fanboyism is observed to exhort its adherents to become trained professional liars for doctrine, and elicits from them a singular hatred of all that does not conform. Which on its own should be grounds for suspicion of the assertions treated uncritcally as fact by this ilk, even before we consider the manner in which duplicitous behaviour on the part of said ilk, in some instances extends to the manifestly criminal, in a manner that would see howls of derision audible across the Solar System if an atheist perpetrated the same felonies.

Indeed, a whole range of lurid discoursive pathologies are endemic to the entire mtthology fanboy enterprise - double standards, wilful ignorance, a preference for ex recto fabrication over proper deductive reasoning, and wilfully deceitful misrepresentation of alternative ideas.

If any mythology fanboys want to know why I want nothing to do with their mythologies and their asserted magic men, the answer is simple - your behaviour made those mythologies and those magic men repulsive and noxious.

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I became a Christian when I was 23 and spent the next 30 years wrestling with unbelief (a sin according to the bible when in reality it is the mental burden of struggling with the many ethical and logical contradictions of the bible). I came from a background of severe mental abuse, my dad was a chronic alcoholic and my mother is a narcissist, who made it clear I was the most repulsive person on the planet. They were and are devout atheists. When I first heard the gospel, the appeal of a god loving me unconditionally was incredibly powerful, and I wanted to believe it. After making a profession of faith (despite battling with unbelief) I found myself surrounded by people who seemed to have it together, seemed to be kind and all declared they had a personal relationship with a loving god and knew he was real and walked with them daily. I felt none of this and believed it was because I was such a flawed human being. I did everything I could to be like them, read my bible daily, prayed, shared the good word, went to bible study, church every Sunday. I even went to 2 bible colleges, trained to be a missionary, studied linguistics, and preached frequently. I was looking for this god’s approval, craved his acceptance, and knew that all the fault was with me not him. Critical thinking just wasn’t an option, we were warned against it constantly from the pulpit. Yes, I was an idiot, but it did stop me from committing suicide or becoming an alcoholic. Coming out as a non-believer was a very difficult process, I even ended up in hospital after a deliberate overdose. Setting your mind free can be a hell of a process.

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Not gonna share stories… mine is similar at the beginning and I just dealt with things differently but fell into the Christian faith for nearly the same reasons. God was my father. My real father and the only person that loved me. (Admittedly, this self delusion pulled me through some teenage years.) Nevertheless, a quick look around, an attempt at being a preacher, and reality was staring me in the face. Going to every church in town can have an interesting effect on a young mind. Hypocracy became apparent and religion short lived after that.

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