Was church good today?

The rules serve the purpose of preventing the sheep from mustering a questioning though. Small sects of all kinds can be incredibly controlling of their members, lest they run away. Many eventually do.

Yes. It’s becoming almost a daily thing for me to check out the latest vids posted by the ACA. I do chuckle at some of the lamest and wackiest reasons folks give. But I sometimes let myself get stressed when I listen to adults who can’t or won’t apply reasoning or logic, and also don’t know what credible or convincing evidence is. Shocking knowing that they might be people who make decisions based on their fantasies that could affect our societies and us as individuals.

Same with the military. Keep them busy, constantly remind them of the strict rules, and feed them with cheap beer to keep them happy but ready to fight at any time.


Those who run armies have always known how hard it is to get a man to kill another man. Hence the emotional brutality of basic training. The aim is to beak a person down, and built him back so he will obey orders without question. Even then , it seems that around 70% of our troops [at least] went through WW2 without killing anyone. Now I can’t remember where I read that, so it can be taken as hearsay.

However, I found this:

“During World War II it was estimated that 45,000 rounds of small arms ammunition was fired to kill one enemy soldier. In Vietnam the American military establishment consumed an estimated 50,000 rounds of ammunition for every enemy killed. Small arms ammunition includes the ammunition used by the sidearm, assault rifle, rifle and heavy machines. Currently in the US inventory it would be 9 x19mm, 5.56 x 45mm, 7.62 x 51 mm and 12.7 x 99 mm. Pistol through the venerable ‘Ma Deuce’, M2 50 caliber Browning Heavy Machine gun. You could probably perhaps include the 40mm grenade launcher too.”

It is my perception that graphically violent computer games do in fact desensitise players to violence. However, I can’t demonstrate that to be true. Pretty confident there are probably erudite studies arguing both sides of the issue.

Yup :+1: lol :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: it was against the rules. Seriously. This “life” is sacrificed for the promises to come. I was motivated, believe it or not, by helping others. I really had a deep concern for people who were doomed to die at Armageddon.

It was basically a conscript army. The army had just a few months to 'train" a soldier and put him in the field. Obviously that was not long enough to impart any marksman skills, so the entire focus was just putting bullets downrange, in the hope they would hit something.

That is also why the M14 was replaced by the M16 in 1964. The M14 was difficult to control under full auto, while the M16 was controllable.

What changed your mind then?

Seriously almost dying refusing a blood transfusion. I realized I regretted not being who I was…living for approval based on what I did or was viewed.

Perfect daughter, wife, pioneer (JW term for a full time door knocker) …the list goes on and on.

I was dying, never having been me. That hit me hard - that regret.

I left the hospital, my marriage, my home… never looked back.

EDITED: I was a true believer. Big time. It took years to de-program myself. I was just done living life for everyone else.

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DAMN, does anyone in your family communicate with you, or are you still considered a heretic? Religion can really fuck up families.

[quote=“David_Killens, post:26, topic:2049”]

The army had just a few months to 'train" a soldier and put him in the field. "

Try six weeks. Also the time used to train WW2 soldiers. However I’m not convinced that had anything to do with most soldiers not killing anyone. Also, in Vietnam was very different from WW2; there was no defined front line. A person didn’t need to be a marksman to kill the enemy. Especially with an M60 machine gun, which produces a cone of fire. IE it hits the target and everything around it for some metres.

Some people, such as myself, are natural marksmen. I had never fired a rifle or any other firearm. I was rated marksman with a 7.62 rifle, our basic weapon, in the first few weeks of basic training . That was not remarkably uncommon.

My training consisted of 10 weeks basic, then 10 weeks corps training, then a med course. If I had gone to Vietnam, I would have then gone to Queensland for 3 weeks jungle training in actual jungle.

I’ll stand by my position that it’s extremely hard to train a man to kill another man. I met literally hundreds of Vietnam vets because the battalion I joined had just come back from Vietnam… When a man does kill another man, even in war, the experience fucks him up, unless he is psychopath with no conscience. Generally, I think being in a war fucks up just about everyone who has the experience. I am sooo grateful that I managed to avoid going to Vietnam.


I was trained as a stretcher bearer, which is pretty basic. Got to Malaysia, discovered they had a shortage of medics. So myself and my mates (12 of us) became medics and were trained on the job. That meant working at the aid post and effectively doing triage at daily sick parades . IE deciding who got to see the doctor.

No one.

I have two siblings that followed me out - one a year later and the other 6 months after that. We’re close… in the same boat :rowing_woman:t2:

It was a real shame on my mom. Lol.

I still live in the community I was a JW. No aunts, uncles, cousins, childhood friends, adults friends - that are “in” speak to me.

There are a few from my old congregation that have left and we keep in touch via fb.

Edited to add: my mom had some contact for a bit just to arrange to see the boys. I’d let her take them to the Kingdom Hall (hahahaha). She hasn’t called or seen the boys now that they’re in their teens. They’ve made their “choice” (in her mind???) - bird food (vultures).

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That’s very sad. Imo no one wins in such situations. It sounds like the old Puritan practice of ‘shunning’. I understand that still occurs in Amish communities.

Very different with Catholics. Myself and three younger sibs were all educated in Catholic schools. We are all atheists. My mother was always fine with us, although I know she was saddened. Same with my cousins. It was only my father who was a cunt about it. No big blow up, he simply sniped at us for the next thirty years. He was too bloody minded notice that his behaviour simply meant we didn’t see him as often. If it wasn’t for wanting to see mum, I never would have bothered with the prick.

Nope. I’ve probably spent a grand total of about three hours in churches over my entire life.

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I actually enjoy visiting some churches. Mainly very old ones. Not for the religion and services, though, but for the architecture (which can be magnificent), the art (which, despite the message it conveys, can be pretty to look at), and the local history (which can be very interesting).

That is very sad to hear, I’m sorry.

I love any/all old churches or cathedrals for the same reason, it’s age, the architecture, and the utter amazement at how they built something so massive so long ago. The workmanship cannot be duplicated today, a lot of those building techniques are a lost art.
Whenever I’m in any church, I’ve never felt the presence of any god, just an overwhelming desire to start laughing.

That’s true in my case too. The three hour figure I mentioned was actual religious services. I’ve spent a lot of time wandering around in European cathedrals, but just to admire the architecture and not to attend services.

Me too.

There are some beauts in Europe (as long as you ignore the odd saint rotting away in a glass case)

England not quite so much due to Henry V111. I loved Notre Dame De Paris, with its stunning rose window. But my favourite remains St Peter’s basilica In Rome. The size of a football field, one great amazing work of art, the greatest (imo) being Michelangelo’s Pieta . Although not a church, the Sistine chapel ceiling is spectacular. The Centre of Florence is like one big, gorgeous museum.

Here in Oz, there is the subline Lumen Christi catholic church at Augustus, Western Australia. It’s right on the coast and built of rammed limestone. I spoke to the priest while I was visiting and he explained some of the technical issues they had when building it. Sorry I can’t find any decent photos.

Thanks :blush:

But my sorrow is for them. Pity the fools. I got out at 30…and I’m awesome :sunglasses:

The family I’m building is fucking awesome … my life is (has been) awesome.

Worth the shunning.


Just think of how mind-numbingly happy everyone would be learning the right way of reading and interpreting their bibles. Imagine the Joy the boys would feel each time they were able to convince a school mate to join them at Kingdom Hall. And how fulfulled would the entire family be standing on a street corner in front of a rack of Watchtowers thanking God for the strenght to endure the cold air numbing your toes and the cold stairs of passers’ by. You could be doing God’s work. Are you absolutely sure you made the right decision. Think about all the joy you are missing.

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