Hi my name is Abudlrahman which roughly translates to “god’s slave” anyway and i’m an atheist from syria, and in this topic i’m going to tell you a story, at the end result of it god can’t possibly be fair to everyone at the same time, and the title of that story is “the three brothers dilemma” bear in mind they don’t have to be brothers to be a dilemma but for the sake of simplicity there are called brothers , and this story was given to muslim scholars as a dare to solve back when islam was starting but all muslims couldn’t find a fare answer to it and muslim scholars have always been sweeping it under the rug ever since, and last thing this isn’t just a dilemma to muslims but can work on all religions by slight modification, and the story goes like this:
there were three brothers the oldest is a priest like person who has done nothing but good things in his life and he is the perfect example of god to humanity pretty heaven material, and the middle brother is the absolute opposite of his older brother pretty hell material , however the last brother is just a normal kid a minor who doesn’t know yet about righteousness so both in Islam and Christianity and most religions this kid is a heaven material, anyway while they were walking in the desert they all died call it natural causes call it they got lost in the desert or a pack of animals ate them, now they are all now in the hands of god: god said to the first and older brother your place is obviously in heaven and not only in any heaven but the highest level of heaven (as you know there are levels of heaven in Islam and Christianity) which is not a surprise considering the good deeds this brother has done , and god said to the second or middle brother your place is again obviously in hell you didn’t believe in me and you killed and murdered and all that kind of stuff, this brother wasn’t surprised though cause he knew he deserved it , and finally to last brother the kid god told him your place is in heaven but not on the same level as your older first brother cause that wouldn’t be fair to him after all he worked his whole life to get to this level so i’m going to put you in the lowest level of heaven, here this kid says: objection your honor but I kinda wanted to be like my older brother and i always looked up for him and you kinda robed me the highest level of heaven because you killed me and this not fair , here god can give a lot of responses feel free to take a break and think of god’s best possible response, there could be many but that response is: you weren’t going to be like your older brother i knew your future you were going to be horrible and go to hell eventually, then the kid said really ? thank you god for saving me the lowest level of heaven is still better than hell, now the second brother pops up and tells god am i a joke to you ? you saved my little brother and you let me on the path that leads to hell and you didn’t save me !! just like you saved my little brother that’s not fair … and here is the end of this dilemma no matter how you put it or rephrase it god could never be fair to all three of them at the same time one of them is bound to be maltreated if god maid it fair to two brothers the third one is automatically offended and maltreated.
notice that one can always say that god does whatever he wants and solve this problem, but that wouldn’t be fair now would it ?
this dilemma shows that god wasn’t able to be fair for just three men let alone the whole of humanity with all their complexities. so if you are a believer and you’re relying on god’s understanding of your circumstances think twice, this is what happens when religious people attribute all infinity and max powers to one entity … they start to contradict one another so either left with an all knowing but not fair god or a not all knowing so he is not a god.
if you are a believer try to solve it in the replays
hope you all liked it. best regards
Welcome to Atheist Republic Abdulrahman
I deal with this comparing the paradox that christians claim that their god is both just and merciful.
You can not be both. Mercy is the suspension of justice, while justice is the suspension of mercy.
Another paradox from the same tale. One would expect that in the top level of heaven one would be 100% happy. But the elder pious brother would discover that his other brother did not make it to the top floor. Thus he should be unhappy.
So what does this god do to make him happy again? Reach into his brain and erase all memories, basically turning him into a zombie? Is heaven populated by zombies?
You are wrong and there is no dilemma. The dilemma occurs in your wording and not in the punishments or the just deserves of the three brothers. The dilemma points to the fact that a God can not be Just and Merciful at the same time. Mercy is the suspension of Justice. The fact that your Islamic Scholars could not figure this out makes me question their education. Perhaps if their noses were not attached to the pages of their holy books the solution would have been obvious.
If God is Just, then he simply tells the first brother, You have "earned a place in the highest heaven. To the second. Your murderous life has earned you a place in hell. And to the third, your life has earned you a spot in the lowest level of heaven.
“NO MERCY - merely judgment and justice.”
There is no argument from the second brother; “You saved my brother.” “No, I did not save your brother from anything. He earned his place in heaven and that is my judgment. Get out of my site murderer.”
This is not a dilemma unless you try to pair God’s justice with God’s Mercy. The two concepts are opposites. They can not go together. Dilemma Solved!
Yep. Even as a kid, that is something that always puzzled me about heaven. I was always taught that “when we all get to heaven”, we will be reunited with family and friends and be happy together for all of eternity. Now, on the surface, one has to admit that sounds really nice. However, depending on which of the various sets of standards are followed to be allowed entrance into heaven, it stands to reason there will be quite a few who won’t make the cut. As such, once everybody gathers, some of those dear friends and family might not be there. So I ALWAYS wondered, “If I die and go to heaven, how am I expected to be happy for all of eternity if I look around and notice - for instance - my Granny or my Grandaddy aren’t there? Especially knowing they are likely suffering in hell forever.” Imagine being a little kid and having that running through your head on a regular basis. What’s worse, though, no adult could ever give me an acceptable explanation on how that would work. And in many cases, it was as if they had never even considered that possibility. Almost as if they just assumed everybody they loved would automatically go to heaven with them. Shit like that kept me awake at night.
Yea. If you really think things through without bias, these crazy conclusions stare you in the face.
And taking the zombie aspect further, then there is no “free will” in heaven. Everyone would be zombified.
Although I have not discounted there may be a god, this logic proves to me that the Abrahamic god does not exist.
Furthermore. Why are Theists able to write off mermaids, fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, werewolves, and other religious / mythological deities as fake but not their own deity?
That tells me theirs doesn’t exist either.
I went through that same terror, accept I was terrified of eternity. I watched so many sci-fi movies of people from time travel or goofy plots that went insane from extending their life. I literally cried as a child at the thought of eternity and turning into a mindless drooling babbling crackpot forever singing songs to god and forgetting the words.
Of course I’m still a babbling crackpot just I don’t drool……yet.
Ah…give it time grasshopper. Droolarama is on your horizon. Also, have you been occasionally seeing an old man who looks a good bit like you, more or less following you around? If not, you will. I used to see him from time to time. Now I only see him when I gaze into a mirror…
Oh, yeah… About “heaven”… That also use to puzzle the absolute SHIT out of me. On one hand, I’m being taught how it is wrong to desire wealth and riches. Then turn right around and get taught and sing about how wonderful it is in heaven with, “Streets paved with GOLD!”… WTF? 
On top of that, I’m being told how fantastic it will be to spend eternity bowing to and singing praises to God. I HATED singing in church, and bowing down to anybody or anything always made me uncomfortable. And I’m expected to be overjoyed at the prospect of doing that for eternity??? Holy fuck! Certainly did not sound like any type of paradise to where I wanted to go.
Not gold. Copper and zince. Those streets were forged out of the dollars and pennies from the offering plate. 
Please be patient, grasshopper. Droolarama is approaching. Have you also noticed that an elderly man who somewhat like you has been following you around on occasion? If not, you’ll do it. He and I used to occasionally cross paths. Now, I only catch a glimpse of him in mirrors…
Welcome to Atheist Republic rebel1.
Not quite sure of the meaning of your post …
You do understand that I live in a house with plungers on the ceiling and swing from plunger to plunger as I move from room to room. The floor is so covered in shit that to walk on it one would sink as if swallowed by quicksand. Furthermore, the fog of amonia down there makes the fist six feet uninhabitable by humans. I have seen garden gnomes, tin men, and I think a pug or two, but no humans. I seriously doubt your old man is following me anywhere. There is safety in offal,. Well, except for the invisible ankle biting garden gnomes. I really hate those sneaky sukers.
Uh, confusingly he was quoting my prior post
Edit for doubletake
That you for that information. As an Admin I get a lot of stuff that requires deleting or banning (ads and such), and his post was flagged. I was not aware where his comment came from, and decided to give him a chance instead of just deleting his account.
But everyone deserves a second chance, and I will allow him in this forum. But trust me, I am keeping an eye on this one.
Maybe he hasn’t figured out how to use the quote function yet?
I had to copy and paste his comment into the Google search function. He’s quoting an old television show called “Kung Fu”.
Any god reported to be both ‘Just’ and ‘Merciful’ does not exist.