The Return of the Ancient Gods

Debate Room
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So like most religions Buddhism got hold of you at a weak moment in your life and then convinced you of its value. (Ummm… Nothing new here!)

Buddhism usurping that which is just simply human. Think of all the woo-woo shit you have to believe in Buddhsim to simply ‘unbind.’ (Setting things down and walking away from them). Its the perfect example of the two monks and the prostitute. Why are you still carrying all that shit around with you. “This is not the reason for that.” You are making up stories to justify your own negativity. You don’t need stories. Shit happens. And then you put it down and walk away.

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@Cognostic, are you saying that it is possible to have those things that happen to us not impact our lives? Or are you saying not to let them overwhelm? And, are you referring only to the ‘bad’ stuff, not the ‘good’?

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@Cognostic @rat_spit

Not trying to compete or anything, but my childhood wasn’t exactly a cakewalk either. For instance, when I was about 3 years old, during the summer the ice cream truck would regularly come through the trailer park where we lived. During that time, they actually sold soft-serve ice cream in a cone, and you could have sprinkles and stuff put on them.

So, this one day me and all the other trailer park kids are outside taking turns playing with an old tin can we had found, and we heard the familiar music box tinkle-tinkle tune of “The Entertainer” approaching from down the street. As usual, everybody scattered and sprinted toward their respective trailers to beg and plead for whatever spare change their parents could provide for a cool and delicious summer treat.

Upon reaching my single-wide abode, I busted through the door yelling repeatedly, “MOMMY! THE ICE CREAM MAN IS COMING!” But I got no response, and I did not see her anywhere. Then I noticed the bathroom door was closed. A knot of dread formed in my tiny tummy. My mommy was in the potty at the worst possible time. “I’m going to miss the ice cream man today! Noooo…!” She finally exited after what seemed an eternity of my banging and pounding on the bathroom door while yelling, “Hurry up! Hurry up! Hurry up!..” Then, moving at what seemed a glacial pace, she eventually made her way to her purse and started dugging for the spare change therein. From outside I heard the ice cream truck stop and the clamor of the other kids shouting for their treat of choice. Meanwhile, I’m standing their doing the pee-pee dance while thinking, “Holy doo-doo, why is she taking so darn long?” FINALLY her hand emerged from the purse holding a dime, two nickles, and five pennies. I snatched the coins from her hand and was out the door before she could blink.

With my little heart racing at top RPM’s, I arrived at the truck just as the last kid was receiving his red, white, and blue bomb-pop. Phew! I had just BARELY made it in time! While trying to catch my breath and calm my over-stressed nerves, I quickly told the vendor, “I wanna chocolate ice cream cone with chocolate sprinkles!” He reached out his hand and I gave him the eight coins my mommy had taken forever to accumulate from her purse. The man took the coins, turned back into the interior, and then came back into view a couple of moments later with my chosen treasure. (I was too short to see up into the truck.) With a surge of thrill and relief, I carefully took my precious prize and headed back toward the yard as I heard the truck shift into gear to continue on its way. What happened next changed my life forever… (The squeamish might want to stop reading at this point.)

I was crossing the yard toward our transportable domicile, with the melodic Sirens song of the ice cream truck fading into the distance. As the heat of the day was causing accelerate melting of my chilled dairy delight, I was fully focused on using my tongue to prevent any wasting of the resultant chocolate drippings. And THEN… Disaster struck… One second I’m blissfully enjoying my bounty, and the next thing I know my world went into slow motion as my right foot struck an uneven fold of earth, causing me to stumble and fall forward. Naturally, my arms reflexively straightened in front of me and my tiny hands opened to instinctively break my fall. As a result, I saw my ice cream cone slowly tumbling end-over-end in a perfect arc with a trajectory ending at a large pile of dog poop. To my horror, that is indeed exactly where it landed. And such was the color of the poop and ice cream, one could not distinguish one from the other as the summer sun began to mix the two materials into a molten mound from hell.

I don’t remember much after that, but the trauma of that day stayed with me for many years after. Took a long time, but I was eventually able to get past the feelings of sharp anxiety and the uncontrollable sobbing whenever I saw somebody eating an ice cream cone. So, yeah, childhood trauma can be rough. Those of us who overcome and rise above it, though, are better people as a result.

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146

@Tin-Man, very creative story. Is your underlying meaning that childhood trauma is funny?

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I am referencing the stories you tell yourself about those things. The things themselves do not impact our lives. It is ‘in fact’ the stories we tell ourselves about those things that impact our lives. There is no causal relationship. The relationship is between the story you tell yourself about the event and your life. Not the event itself.

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This isn’t making sense to me. If the event doesn’t happen, there cannot be an effect on one’s life. The crux of the biscuit, so to speak, is the event itself.

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No. The Crux is the story you tell yourself about the event. Tragic events happen. Why are some people better at dealing with them than others? What would be the story a person would tell themselves before going into therapy and after therapy? The event remains the same. Events are reality and they happen. There are healthy and unhealthy ways of perceiving events. There are ways that are useful. These ways put things in perspective and may even help you grow or give you insights into the world around you. And there are ways that are not useful and stagnate your ability to function in the world. The events themselves are actually secondary. That does not mean people are not justified in their feelings of hurt, anger, or rage. It does mean that there are many different ways to see the world around us and some ways are healthier than others. There is a huge difference between being a ‘victim’ of child abuse and a ‘survivor’ of child abuse. It is not a trick of language. It is a perception of the world around you. The stories we tell ourselves have very real consequences in our lives.

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His underlying meaning is, ‘shit happens.’ Now what you think about it is everything. Imagine how devastating it was for him to lose that ice cream. Because of that one event, he became a horder. The world was obviously an unsafe place, and he needed to protect all his belongings. That’s why TinMan is so fucked up. It makes perfect sense. The significance of the event is in the eyes of the beholder.

Now, we can agree with Tin and say, “Yes, that was a horrible and tragic event.” Or… we can inquire as to what made the event especially horrible. Some dogs are horrible, and they do poop regardless of pooping laws. They are bad dogs, and they don’t give a shit about people. We usually try to lock them away. Still, we can not protect all the little TinMen from dropping their ice creams into piles of dog shit. How is that TinMan’s fault? It’s unfortunate that he happened to be in an undesirable situation. He probably has a right to be angry at the world, and of course blame God. It may even make sense that he became a horder because that was the best decision he could make at the time given his understanding of the world. But the fact of the matter is this: Tin Men have always dropped ice creams into piles of nasty dog shit. It is in fact a FACT of life. It is unfortunate that it happened to him. We all agree. Now what? How is hording helping? Or perhaps hording was once useful, but now it is causing problems. It may be that the goal is to continue hording in which case we could probably talk about building an addition onto the garage where he lives. Hmm… I wonder if any solution is healthier or more productive than any other solution? .

Events always happen. The significance of the event is the story we tell ourselves. The story of the event is how we cope with it. Our stories are often learned from our culture or from the world around us. Our stories make up the world we live in.

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The book in question, The Return of the Ancient Gods, is obviously religious agitprop and therefore not for me.

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HI Cyber
I though of another way of explaining this to you. I probably should have gone here first. Reality Therapy.

There is an activating event that leads to a consequence. This is the typical way most people think about reality. So they say things like "You made me mad.’

The fact is that there is an intervening variable.
Activating event (The thing that happens) - BELIEF (an individual belief about the event) - and only then a consequence.

Without an underlying belief about the event you would not respond to it at all.

What is Albert Ellis’ ABC Model in CBT Theory? (Incl. PDF) Cognative Behavioral Therapy

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So, Cognostic, why are you responding to all these threads if you lack belief by your own admission?

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(((((((((((((((((( CONTEXT ))))))))))))))))))))))))) - I remembered…

Obviously I lack belief in my own admission. That is why I respond to these threads. (Um… which version of admission are we talking about? I forget. )

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Well, Cognostic, supposedly, you are an agnostic. I think that you are just a heathen.

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@Cognostic

If I am understanding you correctly you are suggesting that two separate events takes place, the first is beyond our control say, but how we interpret it determines the second - our reaction to it, and if I understand you correctly you’re saying there is no causal link between the two, only our decision, whatever that may be.

I see your point, much of what we interpret as decisions are little more than our blind submission to hormones, and instincts. How much actual autonomy we have is open to debate. It’s not a very comforting idea, and will dent our ego no doubt, to imagine all our reasoning may be to a certain extent simply coloured bubbles.

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Well, in case you missed the memo, Cog is actually both. As are most of us here, as a matter of fact. Glad I could help.

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158

Thanks for that, Tin-Man, but I believe in atheistic humanism, i.e., I like to think.

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In case nobody else knows the difference between philosophical materialism and commercial materialism, it is the belief of philosophical materialists that metaphysics serves no purpose at all being mere gibberish.

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@Cognostic, thank you for the clarification. I concur that there is a significant difference between being a victim and being a survivor. And that one can make that change.
I don’t think, though, that all those who have experienced trauma have the resources (both internal and external) to make the transition from one to the other.
Additionally, I think that, although one can learn how to stop allowing trauma to rule their lives, it has irrevocably changed them. One cannot just “walk away” from it. It becomes woven in the fabric of who they are.

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As in previous discussion, agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive, and neither are incompatible with humanism.

Agnosticism

The belief that nothing is known or can be known about the nature or existence of god.

Atheism

The lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities.

Humanism

a rationalist outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters.

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I’d have to agree, whilst it is possible to (a certain extent) to decide how we react to trauma, the idea we are all equally equipped to do so is a less compelling argument.

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