Quora: What is the most disturbing thing in the Bible that you have found as an atheist?

What you believe, and what is factual, do not necessarily intersect.

Except there’s a problem here, which I’ll elaborate upon shortly.

Well first of all, we need to distinguish between bringing knowledge and presuppositions to the table, a distinction that many mythology fanboys demonstrate routinely that they fail to understand.

Apparently, an elementary concepts flew past you here, namely that the vast majority of human beings possess sufficient commonaliy of experience with respect to their surroundings, to arrive at reasonably congruent views with respect to a host of ready observables. Pretty much everyone with functioning trichromatic vision will agree that the leaves of trees and plants are various shades of green in colour (certainly during the summer months in temperate latitudes - note I’m aware of what happens to deciduous foliage), though some may have a better appreciation of the subtleties of variation through artistic or biological training than others. You won’t find people possessing functioning trichromatic vision saying that the leaves of trees are blue or purple.

The fun part being, of course, that even people with colour vision defects will, as a result of basic education, have an appreciation of the idea that the leaves of trees are green, even if their colour vision defects prevent them from experiencing this first hand. Indeed, a trained science teacher can easily demonstrate the existence of the visible light spectrum, and use various instruments to measure the wavelength of the light in different parts of said spectrum, to the point where even a severely colour blind student can appreciate what’s happening, even if that student can’t see the colours in question.

Matters become even more interesting when we examine the visual response of other organisms, perhaps the canonical example being mantis shrimps. Which have no less than twelve different colour receptor opsins in their eyes that are stimulated by visible light, and they also have receptors for UV (which humans can’t detect by eye alone) and polarised light (which again humans can’t detect by eye alone). Here’s an example of research into the polarised light aspect of mantis shrimp vision, and the development of a camera that converts that polarisation into human visible form.

Now just because we don’t share the matnis shrimp’s ability to detect and respond to polarised light, doesn’t mean that we won’t, for example, fail to detect a crab or other food item moving into the mantis shrimp’s striking range. Our vision adequately allows humans to observe this, and multiple humans taking part in a reef dive will be able to observe such an event, without reaching wildly divergent conclusions about what they saw.

The big problem comes, in the case of humans, of allowing unsupported assertions to override sensory data, a frequently observed part of the mythology fanboy aetiology. Humans who have allowed themselves to become seduced by cosy but infantile notions of a cartoon magic man being responsible for everything, will bring that magic man into the picture regardless of whether or not doing so is in the least bit tenable. Here’s a particularly toxic example of that aetiology in action:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F873gdhm4nzcy.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D22bcc8b642044d6f4e56dc7c2df0a7ce558c5abb

Indeed, this epistemological infection leads to all manner of treating sensory data as something to play apologetics with, instead of something to learn from. Creationists in particular take this basic faulure of reason to a noxiously duplicitous level.

Quite simply, in the absence of dialectical indoctrination, humans will enjoy a commonality of experience allowing them to arrive at a broad consensus about their surroundings. Some may be more eloquent in this regard than others, but the phenomenon is readily observable. That broad consensus only breaks down in malign fashion after an ideology is installed.

But of course, one of the lessons we learn from science, is that our surroundings can be, at times, interestingly counter-intuitive. The moment we start moving out of the realm of everyday experience, and start investigating entities and interactions that are beyond our normal sensory remit, those entities and interactions have a habit of behaving in ways that defy everyday intuition, and in that realm of experience, proper training is required to make sense thereof, along with a large helping of mathematics in the case of certain parts of physics.

Before the predictable and tiresome erection of a fake “symmetry” between scientific training and “indoctrination” is peddled here, there’s one key difference. Scientific training includes testing and verifying postulates by experiment, a practice completely absent from ideologies, be they religious or political. If you don’t subject your postulates wherever possible to experimental test, or labour diligently to devise tests where none existed previously (I appreciate that pure mathematics operates in a separate, but no less rigorous, manner), then you’re in the business of apologetics. Which at bottom, consists of concocting rococo fabrications as a substitute for genuine evidential support, and is useless as a result.

And with that, I’ll return everyone to their normal schedule.

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You are wrong. Here is a list of biblical contradictions for you.

You and I, not me and you, and the best way to way to determine which were true would be to provide sufficient objective evidence. I see no reason to believe the bible is anything but a collection of man made stories, unless you can offer some objective evidence to support the idea it is divinely inspired?

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@FILECABINET are you going to address my questions about your claims? Or explain who you were asking that question to? Since both @CyberLN and I are atheists?

You’re asking an Atheist this question? Really? I mean…come on, really?

There are several places where the Bible contradicts itself on a number of objects by a factor of 10 exactly (typically explained as a human copying error), yet they are still in there! Explaining why there is a contradiction, doesn’t remove the contradiction.

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Not remotely what he asked you to demonstrate though is it? Note his response repeating the question here:

Again not what he asked, he asked you to demonstrate how you know this, you’re just making another bare claim. Which is what I said at the time.

Your response included a string of straw men fallacies, and then a massive shifting of the goal posts here:

You claimed to know no deity exists, he asked you to demonstrate how you know this. You failed to answer him honestly, then segwayed into a raft of new and irrelevant claims, one of which is this gem.

A false equivalence fallacy again. Followed by another straw man fallacy here:

FYI, I am an atheist, and I have stated no such thing.

You never answer a single of my questions, at this point it would be hard to even feign surprise, and without indicating who you were responding to, your next post offered just this:

I am more and more convinced debate is beyond you, maybe a pulpit or a soap box is better suited to your sort of preaching?

We agree that conmen have created gods. So what? You did not address the question. Obviously, conmen have created gods. We have many real-world examples. Now demonstrate that there are no gods and stop avoiding the issue. Because a conman invented one god, it does not follow that conmen invented all gods. Looks like an existential fallacy to me.

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Indeed, he is using here, and elsewhere a Half truth fallacy…No 59

“The Half Truth (also Card Stacking, Stacking the Deck, Incomplete Information): A corrupt argument from logos, the fallacy of consciously selecting, collecting and sharing only that evidence that supports one’s own standpoint, telling the strict truth but deliberately minimizing or omitting important key details in order to falsify the larger picture and support a false conclusion.”

“The half-truth fallacy refers to drawing false conclusions based on a half-truth. Whether intentional or unintentional, presenting part of the truth creates a deceptive argument.”

CITATION

“The best way to lie is to tell the truth … and then shut up.”

That’s an easy one. I read a lot of books on Jewish religion and their vision on the Tenach. The most shocking thing in the Bible is the fact that not one claim from the New Testament is found in the Jewish Bible, even though Christians claim that the entire so called Old Testament is fullfilled by the Messianic Jesus in the New Testament. It makes no sense unless you have no knowledge of Hebrew and only take any reference out of context. Which is exactly what christian theology does by the way.

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My Jewish friends would find it hilarious if they didn’t find it so insulting, the way Christians (and, indeed, the authors of the NT itself) retcon the Torah to suit their purposes.

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Exactly. I have in fact watched just about every youtube item from Tovia Singer. It’s the beste remedy against christianity there is. There is a good reason why evangelicals and others only want you to read the King James bible. Reading the original Hebrew will turn you atheist, or jew maybe, real soon.

God is supposed to be the most intelligent being in the universe. And a flood to destroy all life, except for what is on the ark is the solution To the corruption that was developing?

The part that Christians don’t understand is that ‘lucifer’ and ‘satan’ is a character who developed overtime. He was an angel, who met with god, like any other angel at the time. In the job story, he was a relatively mild antagonist, not the polar opposite, or incarnation of evil as represented by Christians today.

But there must be some incredible power in having an antagonist in a narrative. His antagonist role grows much more in the NT. And Mormonism really magnifies his importance even more. In the LDS temple rituals, the creation story is retold, and satan actually talks back to god! (the genesis story of Adam and Eve eating fruit)

So, what do you think if there was a car accident between two cars, and someone else said one of the vehicles was actually a school bus? One said it happened in the early morning, and the other said it was at mid day?

One reported everone died? the other said no one died? One reported the accident was at an intersection, and it was a head on collision? The other said the bus was parked, and the car rear ended it?

Could these inconsistencies be reconciled as a matter of perspective, culture, experience, education etc? Wouldn’t one just conclude that one or both of them were talking about some other event? Maybe completely unrelated events?

I’d have to go with the New Testament invention of Hell, and the idea of infinite punishment for a finite thought crime.

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:rofl: :rofl: I believe you are laughably wrong.

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Although one can argue that modern fundagelical concepts of hell owe more to Dante and Milton and the slant given by modern English translators of the Bible than to the Bible itself. For example: “Gehenna, a Greek word often translated as “hell” in the New Testament, refers to the Valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, a place associated with child sacrifice and later used as a garbage dump, symbolizing God’s judgment and the destruction of the wicked.” Or in other words not a literal place. Gehenna was always on fire to burn the garbage. Some Christians have taken that to mean literally burning human garbage (the sinners) and some have taken it to be a refining fire that makes one worthy of heaven. And everything in between.

A lot of modern Christian theology is post hoc tweaking that was found useful. Hellthreat is one of those things that you have to squint to see in the Christian urtext. But that doesn’t stop a lot of Christians from squinting, of course.

Why do so many people claim this before checking? I’ll quote Bart Ehrman here:

[S]ince the Bible is a book, it makes better sense to approach it the way one approaches other books. There are certainly books in the world that don’t have any mistakes in them. But no one would insist that a particular phone book, chemistry textbook, or car instruction manual has absolutely no mistakes in it before reading it to see whether it does or not. Rather than thinking that the Bible cannot have mistakes, bevore looking to see if it does, why not see if it does, and only then decide whether it could?

I know that many evangelical Christians think that this is backwards and wrong, that questioning the Bible is questioning God. But I don’t see it that way. If God created an error-free book, then the book should be without errors. If what we have is not an error-free book, then it is not a book that God has delivered to us without errors.

(Source: Forged: Writing in the name of God – Why the Bible’s authors are not who we think they are by Bart Ehrman)

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They claim that because they want and need for the book to be error free