I’m also an agnostic atheist. I disbelieve in a whole bunch of things***,because of a complete lack of evidence. However, I make no claims because I do not know.
Lots of luck asking what’s his name to outline his own position. As far as I can tell, he seems to belong to the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too school of argument.
Due to lack of credible evidence, things in which I am unable to believe***include:
God(s) , the soul, a spiritual realm, an afterlife, angels, demons, heaven, hell, the paranormal, ghosts, fortune tellers of all flavours, alternative medicine, dragons, mountain trolls or fairies at the bottom of my garden
***I use the word ‘unable’ deliberately. My disbelief in the things mentioned is not matter of choice. Rather, the inevitable conclusion after over 20 years of searching for ‘meaning’.
Being able to validate as few as ONE miracle for example, would have meant so much. Not as proof for the existence of god (it isn’t) but as evidence that there might more to reality than I currently believe.
Pardon my facetious line about ‘rules’, Cranky.
I was just channelling my grandma again. She also liked to say that ‘rules are meant to be broken’ but she never stopped being the rebellious young suffragette of her youth.
I know you don’t set rules (I thought that claim laughable) but rather I know and appreciate you do observe standard, broadly attested definitions.
I meant only to invite Earth to be less precious about explaining his position on faith.
It can be a surprising challenge for many people to come to a public domain and find their ideas and definitions challenged by previously unknown, maybe misunderstood but well established meanings.
When I first arrived here at AR I considered myself as just an atheist with a tendency towards anti-theism with even a possible hint of misotheism. However, reading and considering the various reasonings expressed on AR, which included acknowledging the separate class of gnosticism/agnosticism, I was convinced, like yourself, that the agnostic atheist is the most honest position and rational position for me to hold.
I would add that evidence for a single miracle would add proof that there might be a hell of a lot more to reality than any of us current understand, much less believe. I own there is an infinite amount I do not and probably cannot understand.
For that you may have a cookie to give you the energy to pursue a thankless and probably disappointing quest.
Yeah, I’ve really tried, but I remain unable to understand a position of hard atheism . This is because as I understand it, such a position attracts the burden of proof . That so far, all claims about god(s) are unfalsifiable. It’s a pointless claim…
In a practical sense, I think this distinction is moot; I live my life AS IF there are no gods or the many other things in which I am unable to believe.
You have exactly described where I find myself.
I use to argue as an anti-theist with my brother’s fundamentalist buddies who did not accept my distinction between a god and the idea of a god and in any case demanded my proof their god did not exist. Utter contempt of them forbid me to admit the burden. I held “they just had to be wrong” until after I arrived at AR. Life is far simpler and relaxed now.
I have mentioned previously that I am not big on labels as they do not really define anyone in their totality whatever that may be and although I am told to go according to a dictionary, we have all heard how they are not totally aligned when individuals express their own definition of themselves. I don’t tend to see things as black or white. Life gets complex and interesting in the gray area.
The reason I did not put myself as a atheist are for the following reasons:
I believe that UFO’s and aliens exist. ( No I don’t have the evidence that is acceptable to most if not all people)… I do not know what aliens are. Are they deities or does one claim to be? I do not know. I believe the possibility is there but the answer is not yet in me. Perhaps my choice on this website is incorrect but it makes no difference to me.
Unlike some atheists who claim that they don’t believe because there is no evidence, I prefer to see things with an open mind. If science operated on the same level as the atheists I mentioned, there would be some theories that would not be explored or entertained until some one gave them evidence.
In my situation many questions remain unanswered but also open for personal research. I don’t practice any religion and I don’t have any interest to engage in their practices. Do their deities exist? I have no idea and I hope that some of them don’t if their scrolls have any validity or at the least I hope their God is not evil as mankind can be.
Sometimes people act like gods; rulers of many, judge, jury, executioners, warriors, superior than others to say the least. In this respect gods exist but I have no interest in obeying them or falling into their traps not only in my personal life but on social media as well and that is one reason why I will not respond to some people.
So what does this make me? To some an atheist, to others a theist, or perhaps agnostic? How does a dictionary define me? I would guess agnostic but I’m not sure and I really don’t care and as we all know that our label may only be temporary. Personally I don;t care how I am labeled. It does not change who I am? I have no interest in labeling myself a theist or atheist as I do with labeling myself as my occupation. as neither one defines me. I have no objection with people needing that. So like i said the last time to someone else, I will leave it up to each person to decide that on their own if that is what they need. Perhaps someone can define me better than I can.
The ONLY definition an atheist label covers is “do you believe in god?”
This does not encompass…aliens (which may or may not be from other planets, time travellers or other “realities”)
“God” labels attached to humans that represent their authority, like judges, “rulers” (from the past or current).
These things exist within our universe as we know it (or would come to know it, ie multiple universes).
Leaving it blank is fine…my take??? You believe in god.
Generally I don’t care what other people believe or not. I focus on those things I think are important to know and understand. I care if people distort information or lie to sell their own agendas to others.
Earth, you don’t seem to care about anything much outside your overworked life. I don’t condemn you for what you do, you may not have any choice in the matter. Long ago I was in a similar situation; 12 to 18 hour days, one day off a fortnight, physical strenuous work, nothing sedentary, that went on for five or six years. Horses for course, I read popular science, chemistry mainly and books on social history, in my small snatches of free time, simply to give myself something different to think about, other than just work. It was a bid to save my sanity.
It surprises me you come to any forum at all with such a limited capacity to engage and a professed low interest in things or activities outside your small circle.
On the original forum site, this one is only months old, there was a hand scrawled banner for the forum that read “we give a shit”, which is missing from this site, [[ edited some time later, the scrawl is still part of the forum banner. Its currently much reduced in size but is clearly visible on enlargement. Oh Good. I do personally still give a shit about many things, so I’m happy with that.]] but is still evident in the reasonable demands made here for clear explanations of any statement made. It is a debate forum after all. On other forums I have not been spared and I am careful to express my thoughts carefully as I can for clarity and if I get caught out on anything I appreciate the concern and make most of any chance of a learning experience if I am convinced of the criticism.
As I said I don’t care for what other people believe as long as they do not impinge on the rights of others. You are free to be as disaffected as you like, but I rather think there’s a danger in that as well, and like any other viewpoint, it needs to be reviewed on a regular basis.
He seems to be saying that science cannot be trusted. Well yes, and?
Imo it is one’s personal responsibility to examine the evidence before accepting or rejecting any claim. All claims should stand on their own merit, not on the reputation of the person(s) making the claim. --religionists have been ignoring actual evidence for millennial, and hasn’t that turned out spiffingly
Science is not built on trust, but on evidence. I’m unable to grasp the logic behind the idea of rejecting science so one may have an open mind. That seems to be a perfect example of being so open minded that one’s brains fall out. Implicit in the attitude is the idea that we human beings are capable of consistent objectivity . I’ve never seen any evidence of such.
Obviously you needed more info to understand me. I hope this clarifies it.
Some atheists …my definition: I do not believe in god. I am shitting on you before you even try to offer any evidence. Any evidence that might leave me with or without a response I will attack your personality. God does not exist and nothing you plan to say will change that. There is no proof and I will not search until someone gives it to me.
I prefer to see things with an open mind…my definition: I can engage in a civil manner. Listen attentively. Verify what I can. Admit what I do not know. Leave things as an open question if I have no facts one way or the other. Search on my own instead of waiting for someone to prove it.
I’m here because I think it’s necessary to have some communication with other people. Unlike today, I usually finish late and that leaves no room to call friends to socialize with. When I’m not working out in the fields I’m working on my computer. These long hours are just a necessity to get the business going to a degree where I can take it to a level to hire more people to have it run more efficiently to a point where I can take more time off. As busy as I may make it sound, for my own sanity I do give myself a week off most months to go on vacation in the wilderness of the Atlantic coast where I really find my peace and joy.
It was Italinish’s plea for help that brought me back here more than anything else. One of my passions is helping others. On social media all that can be done is offer advice. In the real world there are more possibilities.
I’m not really here to debate the god possibility. Religion is not one of my strengths nor interest. It may seem odd that I’m here but there are some interesting people and posts here as well. I usually read silently on my own while others engage, again that is a time related thing but there are interesting reads here. At the same time I am reading 3001 The final Odyssey.
So sad. All I can do is attempt to define myself, since being an atheist does not oblige me to follow any playbook or dogma.
I lack a belief in a god because I have not been convinced of one. If one states “all you require is faith”, then I could believe in anything, literally anything. I do not desire to shit on anyone, but this charged and divisive topic inevitably leads to one big question: can you provide and evidence or proof of a god? A lack of response on that question or evasion raises red flags.
A god may exist. My mind is not closed to that possibility. My personal story is one who was raised by a very christian family, and left the church because I felt that it did not bring me closer to my god. I was very spiritual and diligently sought any deity or any sign of anything. I spent over forty years in my quest, and only after I started watching videos did my thoughts clarify, and I had to admit I was an atheist. My quest was the opposite on what I initially set out for, and I did not want to be defined as an atheist.
Consider the possibility that when I ask for evidence of a god, it is not to entrap or deride you, but I am hoping you can lead me to something I have been searching for these last fifty years.
The unfortunate part is that I have searched long and wide, and listened to every argument. Although a dead end search does not definitively prove it does not exist, it does indicate to me that such a massive lack of evidence leads to the high probability that it does not exist.
So why in the fuck are you hanging about here bugging us. You have been told over and over and over, NONE OF US ARE THOSE ATHEISTS. Now give us evidence for your version of God or FUCK ALL OFF! Who in the fuck are you having this conversation with? Go find some piss ant angry little atheist who is ignorant enough to meet your criteria and talk to him. Or you could grow the fuck up, give us the definition of your God and the evidence you have for it and begin acting like a frigging adult.
There are many atheists like you like you David, thank Nature for that.
I also have no evidence for any God and I don’t know if anyone can convince me of any specific ones that are preached of. Without scientific evidence or real repetitive experiences I will not be convinced that there is something there to take note of. Until then the question will remain open.
I don’t search as much as I used to because I too have gone through much trash to try and find something. Old scrolls or books or videos don’t do it for me anymore. I would rather take the time to hear someone speak of their direct experiences for or against and take it from there.
Last week I joined an American Christian chat group and I have to say it is my worse social media experience ever. Never would I imagine they could be so vile and judgmental. In my last post I told them exactly why I was removing myself. This site is in a good spotlight compared to that one. I could not believe the lies they were spewing out with such blind faith on top of that. They don’t even understand their own scriptures. It all started when they were praising Trump and I put in my thoughts about that. I can swear that the devil itself came at me in full attack mode. The devil didn’t need to be there…they were great representatives of it…lol
Whatever the case a good heart/morals does not need religion. Perhaps some people need it for that reason but I don’t know and I have no education to study people in depth.
For the record I don’t mistrust atheists. I mistrust certain people regardless of their belief or non belief.
You fit your own description perfectly (piss ant angry little atheist) and you also fit into my definition of Some Atheists.
Have you not heard that I have no deity and yet you want me to invent an answer as to what my deity is and what evidence I have? If there is a deity I hope it’s like nothing I’ve been told to believe. Clear enough?
Are you the ambassador speaking on behalf of all atheists?
When you ask someone to grow up and act like an adult you should set the example. If growing up is becoming like you …no thanks.
If you want to have a mature conversation/debate with me keep it clean. Otherwise your stress nerve might pop.
Hahahahaha …you picked nothing as far as belief in god is concerned. So quite frankly, myself and others are free to define you as you choose - NOT an atheist.
Besides you were quick to label all atheists as “blah blah blah”…