New guy who believes in God

Then how do you explain the Crusades and the Inquisition?

@Cr2187 Welcome to Atheist Republic.

And I shall. I checked out your source (Opendoors), and it seems to a very biased christian fund gathering site. Can you please provide evidence of this christian persecution from a reputable independent source devoid of an agenda?

I must disagree. Maybe from your position and lifestyle it is not apparent, but atheists are treated more than poorly by theists, much much more.

From George Bush on atheists as citizens or patriots - National Secular Society

GW Bush Sr. : No, I don’t know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

CONTEXT!!! (Not sure how I missed that on the first pass.) :joy::joy:

Translated: we claim some of the bible is accurate while other parts are bullshit.

The thing is, what process does one use to sift the fact from the bullshit and pure lies? I would love if some christian offered what that process is.

But all of this ties into my long-held position that because there are so many christian religions derived from that one book, it is in fact one huge multiple choice book.

jesus is good, that is true
jesus says nasty crap, that requires context.

What a sad cop-out.

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One example of atheist persecution of Christians is communism. According to theasiadialogue.com the Chinese communist party is officially atheist.

What I want to show by this is that Christians for sure do face persecution by atheists, but I also am not saying that the majority of the time it is.

I could restate my case as this: Christians in general face more persecution for their beliefs whether it’s from communists or other religions than atheists do. I am not accusing atheists of being the primary source of persecution, but what I wanted to say is that the persecution that some atheists face is very little overall compared to what Christians face ignoring who that persecution is coming from.

Simple: They were wrong. What they did was against what Jesus said to do.

Christians have for sure been wrong in the past (the crusades a good example), but as a Christian now I can tell you that is not what any true Christian would consider right.

@Tin-Man, I can’t be totally sure but I think the context being referenced is the context of a Bronze Age Middle Eastern society living abysmal illiteracy and ignorance… some of whom decided to follow deluded rabbis… with one in particular having a central doctrine that commanded his followers to leave everything in their life and only follow him.

Or there may be another, equally sensible context.

You are missing the bigger picture here. You’re cherry picking your verses and taking them out of context.
I would encourage you to actually read the Bible and not just pick out random lines.

Jesus came to show people their own sin and need of him. Why do they need him? Because people’s sinful nature leads to death and hell. God loves people, but he is perfect so he can’t tolerate sin.

Take the example of Sodom: Sodom was an evil city full of idolatry and sexual immorality (when God sent his angels there, the first reaction of the men there was to try and gang rape them). God promised to spare the city if 10 righteous people could be found, but no such ten were found so because God takes sin so seriously, he destroyed them.

Jesus didn’t come to condemn people; he came to convict people. Jesus came to show people their sin so they could fully see their need of him. He gives people A CHOICE between God and sin, and sin ultimately leads to death.

yes, the Bible isn’t entirely PG; that’s because of the seriousness of Jesus’ message. Jesus needs people to realize the seriousness of their sin so they can accept his gift of grace towards them.

Read the bible more fully. God hates sin, but he loves the sinner and commands Christians to do the same.

The judgment and separation from God comes when a person CHOOSES sin OVER GOD

And if there genuinely is a separate and objective standard by which this process works, why not just jettison all of the supernatural, the rituals and superstitions, the holy books written by astonishingly unaware 14th Century desert people, etc., and simply use this standard to make one’s way through life?

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Oh BULLSHIT!

What a fucking idiotic statement. I’m a former Christian as are many atheists. I’ve read the frigging bible. Old and New testaments. Stop making ignorant assertions. Can you demonstrate Jesus ever existed? What in the hell makes you think the Bible is a reflection of anything at all Jesus had to say. John 3:16 does not appear in our oldest bibles. The two oldest manuscripts of Mark 16 (from the 300s) conclude with verse 8. Mark is forged. 80 percent of what Jesus is reported to have said in the Gospels is an approximation or outright inaccurate telling of his sayings .Mar 4, 1991
"“The Five Gospels,” is a 550 page book containing translations of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western universities. They decided to produce a translation of the Gospels which would be uncolored by the translator’s personal faith. It was decided that this translation was to give the reader an honest picture of what Jesus truly said. They scanned the text for the words of Jesus, and collect an index of over 1,500 such sayings. They then tested the validity of each of these sayings, one at a time, to see whether Jesus truly said each one. They then produced a fresh translation, color-coded to show authentic Jesuit sayings and those of an unreliable nature. Their conclusion (page 5) was:

“Eighty-two percent of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him.”

HOW IGNORANT DO YOU WANT TO REMAIN FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?

Jesus Seminar

Your book is shit. Demonstrate that Jesus came anywhere. What evidence do you have for the existence of Jesus? There are no scholars, historians, Kings or scribes that are contemporary to his life that mention him in any way.

Sodom: An inane assertion. Not worth delving into. Demonstrate angels exist or existed.

Choice between God and sin? You mean a choice between the asshole that butchers 26 million people in the bible and finding my own way in the world. That’s not even a choice. I will stay away from your God of the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
(Thank you Mr. Dawkins.)

According to your bible. Your god thing is an asshole.

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So your god has love, but as a form of punishment will kill and consign one to eternal suffering?

I hope you understand this obvious contradiction.

Personally, I have not ruled a god out, it is an unfalsifiable proposition. But I am 100% confident the god of the bible does not exist.

And by what process does one separate the wheat from the chaff, what is true in the bible and what is supposed to be “interpreted”?

Or does everyone just cherry pick what suits their agenda?

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The word “sin” is a religious definition, a crime against a god.

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Even though he is responsible for creating it. :joy::joy::joy:

Whoops. In that case, somebody forgot to tell Mankind to stop evolving in culture and technology. Because it has always been MY understanding (based on what I was taught) that the Holy Bible is the PERFECT WORD of GOD to be followed by Man until the day of the Rapture (whenever the hell that might happen). Maybe God just forgot to send the memo commanding Man to remain ignorant of scientific studies. In all fairness, though, you have to admit God was pretty busy back then. OR… Uh-oh… Just thought of something…

Those damned heathen atheists intercepted the memo, trashed it, and went ahead and started exploring and experimenting anyway. Those bastards! How dare they interfere with God’s Perfect Plan! :rage:

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Aw, c’mon now, Dave. Several thousand Christian sects - all using various versions of the same bible - can’t be wrong. :joy::joy::joy:

I don’t know about the rest of you, but think this Cr2187 is a hoot. Kinda like a religious Star Wars droid. I like him. :grinning:

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Oh dear, the fallacies and canards as being peddled again …

Poppycock. The reverse is true. As an example thereof, here’s an interesting case illustrating this.

Note what is stated there, viz:

This isn’t an isolated case. Indeed, quite a few atheists living in the Bible Belt routinely report that they have to maintain extra vigilance to maintain their personal safety, because of attitudes prevalent there that are mirrored by this case.

Furthermore, people in China are persecuted not because of “atheism”, but because they do not conform to the prevailing political ideology, which is centred upon economic axioms. But you won’t be the first mythology fanboy to ignore pertinent facts here.

“No True Scotsman” fallacy aside, I can tell you that plenty of nasty, bigoted ideas are prevalent among Christians, particularly those from the conservative right in the USA, and they’re exporting their message of hate and bigotry to other countries. Here in the UK where I live, they’re behind the funding of the so-called “Christian Institute”, a right wing hate group hiding its hatred behind religion.

And it’s projection time from a mythology fanboy - quelle surprise!!!

First of all, there is no such thing as “sin”. This is a manufactured, synthetic “offence” against an imaginary cartoon magic man from a goat herder mythology, a mythology containing numerous assertions known not merely to be wrong, but fatuous and absurd. I can happily provide examples if required.

Second, taking note of the inconvenient verses that mythology fanboys ignore during their cherry picking isn’t “cherry picking”, Looby Loo, it’s exposure thereof.

Third, those verses aren’t chosen “at random”, they’re chosen to illustrate pertinent issues. Issues which mythology fanboys either run away from, or pretend they can hand-wave away with ex recto apologetic fabrications.

As for the lame assertion that we’re “cherry picking random verses”, I can demolish that one at a stroke. Courtesy of the fact that right after your goat herder mythology presents “thou shalt not kill” as a purported “commandment”, the mythology in question then devotes over two hundred pages to gleeful depictions of brutal, genocidal Lebensraum wars, along with at least one instance of sex trafficking of underage girls after one of those Lebensraum wars. It is further asserted in those 200-plus pages, that your cartoon magic man, if it ever existed, either directly ordered those Lebensraum wars to be launched, or gave silent assent thereto.

Noting that there are over two hundred pages of this material isn’t “cherry picking”, Looby Loo.

Indeed, those of us who paid attention in class, learned some time ago that the central theme of Abrahamic mythologies can be summed up succinctly as “kill all who do not conform”, a maxim that was gleefully adopted by past generations of mythology fanboys, and which is explicitly presented in several parts of your mythology. Which, along with those 200 pages of gleeful depictions of genocidal Lebensraum wars, were used as the ideological “justification” for every act of warmongering, conquest and repression of indigenous peoples by past generations mythology fanboys.

Indeed, your mythology, far from presenting an image of a fantastically gifted magic entity, instead presents an image thereof as a cosmic Donald Trump in the sky, a petty cosmic narcissist and sociopath, sharing with its inventors a sick penchant for brutality, misogyny and mass murder, and imbued throughout with the mindset of a particularly lumpen Bronze Age warlord. A cosmic manbaby that furthermore was incapable of presenting basic biological facts correctly, as exposed by a 19th century monk.

And returning to the them of the “kill all who do not conform” mantra that is a pervasive and psychotic thread in your favourite mythology, the whole “global flood” garbage, as well as being replete with farcical levels of physical and biological unreality, is also a complete crock as a purported “moral fable”, because it’s the very embodiment of “kill all who do not conform”.

II’m minded to suggest that a lot of fanboys of this mythology become attached to it, because they secretly yearn to jump upon the same bandwagon of genocide and underage rape as its authors. For that matter, as evidence to support this hypothesis, I have a nice little list of “pastors” and other relevant figures, who ended up being featured in the news after being arrested for playing “Hide The Sausage” with 12 year old girls, and that list is growing year on year.

Indeed, the whole creepy fixation with hymens that is another disturbing and pervasive theme in this foetid little goat herder mythology, and which has since carried over in even nastier fashion to newer Abrahamic mythologies, in a manner that should properly be of interest to forensic criminologists, has been the driving force behind a vast swathe of patriarchal sexual criminality. Though in a dark sense I can understand why some of the piss-stained individuals in question have to turn to rape, because no sane woman would ever consent to being soiled by these specimens.

I think this covers all the bases.

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That you chose the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of a “loving” god makes me wonder if you read the bible. Did you miss the part where Lot offers up his daughters to be raped instead of his male guest? This is the behavior your god condones? These are the only people in the whole city worthy of gods love? Then Lot’s wife is deemed worthy of death and eternal damnation for the transgression of “looking back”. Later the daughters, who god has deemed his best examples of humanity , get their father drunk and rape him so there will be sons to carry on his line. Surely this all powerful god could have given him sons without this drunken incest if he’s wanted him to have sons. This is a disgusting, hateful story that has caused much harm to innocent people who are, as a whole, no worse than their heterosexual counter parts.

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China :cn: does take an “irreligious” or an official “atheist” approach to their system of government.

China :cn: does ALOT of suppressing of all sorts of “basic human rights”
…their media, protests 🪧, critical thought or speech.

China :cn: has more of a “cult of personality” built around Xi. Similar to Putin (but Russia :ru: is a Christian nation who “persecutes” other Christians) similar to N Korea (Kim).

Here’s my simple take. BTW I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and we were definitely “persecuted” worldwide (and banned and killed and imprisoned and hated and scorned and mocked) ALL were signs WE were the TRUE RELIGION

Humans have this tribal group mentality (it served us well for species survival). Part of “tribe”??? GOOD :blush:-
NOT part of tribe??? Panic :scream: fear of the “other”, suspicions and resource competition!!!

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And you don’t?

Claim. What objective evidence can you demonstrate for the existence of any known deity?

I’m sorry, that’s just bullshit. Did you even bother reading your Bible? Sure buddy, rape is wrong but that’s fine, incest is better. Your god is okay with fucking your sister, your momma, and your poppa. Lot had an incest relationship with his daughters who got him drunk on a regular basis and took turns fucking him and I honestly don’t think he cared.

Claim. There’s no objective evidence that Jesus ever existed. What objective evidence can you demonstrate for his existence?

It’s a bullshit fiction that can’t back any of it’s claims. It’s a religion that no one should practice. It’s full of slavery, rape, misogyny, genocide, killing innocent babies and children, and torture. There’s not one good thing that the Bible offers.

Oh, we’ve read the Bible. Most of us are former Monotheist. We’re just not convinced.

Claim.

Claim. Demonstrate with objective evidence for the existence of any deity.

How did you arrive at the conclusion there was ever a god? Demonstrate how you %100 know that. What evidence do you have?

The Bible is a claim, not evidence so if you’re thinking of using that fallacious argument don’t bother. Unless you have evidence to back your claims, again don’t bother posting. You’re just going to get called out on it. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

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