New guy who believes in God

Indeed, while pedlars of shitty apologetics carp from the sidelines, it’s scientists who roll up their sleeves and do the actual work.

The fun part being, of course, that they ALSO do this when overturning an established idea because new data tells them this is required.

It wasn’t a “holy man” that ushered in both quantum mechanics and general relativity to overturn Newton, it was scientists - people such as Einstein, Bohr and Dirac.

Of course, Newton’s ideas are still useful, because [1] they’re an excellent approximation when dealing with low velocities and weak gravity fields, and [2] they’re simpler mathematically, to the point where they can be used effectively by high school students.

You don’t need to unleash the full force of the Ricci calculus and rank 4 tensors to build a house. But you DO need to do this when working out how the spacetime around a black hole behaves.

It’s a testament to Newton that he achieved what he did, in an era when the fastest form of travel was the horse. And that his framework is still good enough to be used by NASA for spaceflight mission planning, including convoluted trajectories involving multiple gravity assist flybys around other planets.

Indeed. I’m reminded at this point, that NASA did this with the Cassini-Huygens mission to Titan. Seven years and three gravity assist slingshots later, they positioned the spacecraft in orbit around Titan, within 100 metres of where they wanted it to be, and within 20 seconds of when they wanted it to be in place.

Goat herder mythologies have nothing comparable to offer.

Science works precisely because scientists are willing to jettison even established ideas, if the data tells them this is warranted. This is a concept mythology fanboys just do not understand, namely, that even an idea that has been in accord with observational data for a long time, can suddenly find itself relegated to the “obsolete” shelf if new data is obtained, that the established idea fails to be in accord with. As happened with Newtonian physics.

Of course, that obsolete idea can remain useful, if it remains an excellent approximation and is simpler to apply, but it’s still obsolete, and for precise work, scientists move on to a better idea.

The point being, that the new idea not only has to be in accord with the new data, but in addition, has to be in accord with ALL the old data as well.

Indeed, this is why finding a working theory of quantum gravity is such a hard task - said theory, if it materialises, has to be in accord with ALL the previous data that upheld quantum mechanics and general relativity, as well as any new data outside the remit of both.

The problem being in this case, that the new data allowing a proper choice of quantum gravity framework has yet to arrive, because the theorists are several steps ahead of the experimenters, and even if that data arrives, building a framework that will be in accord with ALL the data will be a nontrivial task to put it mildly.

But mythology fanboys don’t want to do any of this hard work to further our understanding of the universe and its contents. Instead, they want to keep us shackled to Bronze Age nonsense that has been known to be wrong for centuries. Mythology fanboyism is the elevation of indolence to a virtue that it never was.


I wish to add a point. Once a research team publish their findings, that work is flat-out attacked, torn apart, and any weaknesses or flaws exposed. There are no edicts, there is no appeal to authority, the results must sustain each and every attack and criticism. By anyone, even an uneducated child.

And if that paper survives peer review, that is not the end, it is just another data point that may lead to other investigations.


I’ve viewed a dumbed down lecture that stated holographic theory was now showing an equivalence between the rate at which an object’s momentum changes due to gravity and the surface area spread of quantum fields in the presence of a small particle disturbance. Thoughts?

@rat_spit I had a friend who corrected me EVERY time I made an error in speaking or grammar-- I’d often think to myself: You know what I’m trying to say, you old asshole. He’d always just look me directly in the eyes and smile.
When he passed, I realized he wasn’t an asshole at all. He loved me. It was just his way of showing me that he was really listening.


One of many things that added to me becoming an Atheist. This was number 1 on my list that added to me leaving the religion.

Why do Christians and every other religion that has deities need priests, pastors, reverends, and ministers to speak for a god? If a god was all powerful, wouldn’t they be able to speak for their selves?

Just to point out In the scripture, the biblical god had no vocal issues talking to Adam, Eve, Abel, Cain, Noah, or Moses. I asked my mom back when she was pushing me into the religion, and she nor my step dad could answer that question.

I’ve actually asked a few Christians at my parent’s church that before and they gave me some bullshit answer about him speaking to us all of the time and the only reason I couldn’t hear “god” was because I had no “faith”. But whatever, they have a “Gaps” answer for everything.

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In my opinion, this is an extension of religion being a placeholder for the parenting that some folks just can’t give up when they enter adulthood, to one extent or another.

"What’s my view on a particular subject? Well, I just know that this is what my parents, er, god would say so that’s what I say, too. Because parents… that is, god… are without fault in my eyes and I need to retain the security blanket of never believing otherwise.

And if you’re not listening to our parents, you’re obviously choosing to ignore them at your own peril. Because they’re right and awesome."


Just my personal view here…

In one word: Control.

When you consider that a vast majority of the population was illiterate for the first several centuries when Christianity was taking root, only the scholars and ruling class could read the various bible rendentions being compiled here and there. Meaning the average citizen/peasant had no choice but to rely on what the priests or other “holy officials” told them about the bible and god. As such, those religious officials and the rulers they served wielded great power over the masses. The Catholics took it a step further with “mandating” confessions if a person wanted to be “right with God.” Just imagine the information the clergy gathered from such practices. Again, power and control.

Fast-forward to modern day when education is better, the bible is more widely available, and many more people can read the bible on their own. Well, as we all know, trying to make any amount of sense of that “Holy Book” is enough to induce a migraine headache at times. Therefore, “God’s Perfect Words” still require a “Chosen” few who are blessed enough to fully understand God’s Message and pass it along to those who still “struggle in their faith.” Power and control are thus maintained, especially in those sects where its followers are discouraged from reading the bible on their own. This is a very simplified explanation, but you get the idea.

Oh, and to add a bit to what Doc said, God is just an adult version of Santa Claus, in my opinion. For whatever reason(s), some people just have to have some sort of “authority figure” watching over them to make sure they do good. Sad, but true.


And the authority figure has saddled them with a terrible affliction before they were even born.

And the authority figure has the cure to the affliction, to be given only upon the person dedicating their lives to worship and praise and servitude of them. The sooner the better.

And part of that servitude is getting ahold of a book of stories and parables that the authority figure has “written” that’s full of the most hideous shit and contradictions, yet the book must be used as an ultimate guide to the person’s life.

Control writ large, right there IMHO.



When you consider the vast majority of the population is ignorant because of a school system that just pushes students forward and holds no one accountable, Christianity with its magical thinking is ripe for taking root. Only the complete delusional and the con men can read and interpret scriptures for the masses. The average citizen is just too damn lazy to do the work required to relieve themselves from the veil of ignorance in which they live. They rely on the holy officials to tell them about the bible and convince them that their bullshit lives have meaning. Because of this, they weild great control over the ignorant masses. The Catholics have even taken it a step further by mandating confessions as a part of the path to being right with god. Just imagine the information the clergy has gathered against its congregation from such practices. This is as bad as Scientology.

Fast forward to the future where education is going to be no better. Where the internet allows people to read the bible on their own, come up with their own interpretations and start new religious sects. We all know that trying to make any amount of sense from that ‘Holy Book’ is enough to induce a migraine. Therefore, ‘God’s Perfect Words,’ still require someone delusional enough to believe they are in contact with the all powerful creator of the universe, or a complete con man. Only these ‘Chosen Few,’ are blessed enough to fully understand God’s message and pass it on. Power, control, and manipuloation are maintained in the future just as it is today. Especially in sects where the congregations rely on the delusional and the con men to interpret the Bible for them.

Oh, and to add a bit of what Doc Said, “God is just an adult version of Santa Clause.” Most people just have to have some sort of authority figure watching over them to make sure they don’t poo on themselves or their neighbors. Sad but true.

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When I grew up in my theist family, we never read the bible, we just sat in our pews and nodded in agreement. There was no discussion, no theology, just accepting what the dude in the pulpit told us what was expected.

Just before the age of 20 I rejected organized religion, I was definitely still caught up in the throes of some woo woo. I believed that I did not need an intermediary to tell me about a god, I set out to find my own personal god, or creator, or whatever the fuck it was.


Nice expansion. Like I said, mine was a simple version. Even with all you added to it, though, the problem is still even more complex. Good start, at least.

Welcome to Atheist Republic Andrew, may you enjoy your time in here.

Fuck David. What an asshole. You could have been a little nicer to the new guy. You didn’t even offer him a cup of eggnog. What a cold heartless bitch.

That’s it. That’s all you have to say? What about ‘Tin Man’s’ free body massage, first one free to newbees. What about ‘Old Man’s’ free can of ‘Fart Spray’. You gotta keep your fingers on the pulse of what’s ging on around here.

WTF? I never got ANY of this stuff!! You guys suck. I’m taking my thermos and going to the river…

While I cannot say whether or not you got Old Man’s fart spray, I can assure you my free massage was duly given to you. What Cog forgot to mention, however, is that I always give my massages while the recipient is asleep… Deeeeply asleep… With the aid of chlorophorm… In my basement. Makes the use of restraints completely unnecessary.

Mmmm, clever application I must say…

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And that is when I use the spray…

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Ah, this explains a lot, don’t you know…

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And THAT is why I cannot testify if Old Man held up his end of the bargain. I learned a long time ago to NOT be in the room when/if he uses it. I finish my massage and get out quickly before he starts spraying. And it usually takes about a week to fully air out the basement afterwards.

Yeah, here we go with the collusion game again…It still remains that I have no evidence whatsoever of any of the aforementioned “gifts” were ever delivered as described. You guys are unbelievable…