LGBT & woke as "religion"

Debate Room
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Hi all
inspired by a thread where they speak about the LGBT suicide comments by religious persones, I would like to start here a discussion
I am an extremely liberal person, I would like a party to vote with at leasrt the following ideas:

  • Complete liberalization of every drug
  • Euthanasia for everyone, even for healthy minors that ask for it (of course, after trying to change their minds)
  • Abortion after the baby is born but still attached to the umbelical cord
  • Possibility to sell organs from living donors (kidney, cornea etc)
  • Free license for purchasing whatever weapon, tank included, as long as nobody leaves their homes armed, in case one is discovered armed goes automatically in jail
  • Legalized prostitution, even with corpses if the person who died expressed its will to be used like this after death
  • Legalization of sex with animals
  • Marriage between 3 or more persons, marriage with animals etc
    So I think I am not really a “bigot”.
    I am anyway at discomfort with some trans stuff, in the sense that for me it is very difficult that these people do not accept “reality”. You are either born with XX or XY chromosomes, anomalies in this respect are really, really extremely rare.
    So it is like a anorexic person: they (most of them) look themselves in the mirror and see that they have the wrong sex, exactly like a anorexic look at the mirror and see a fat person or some body builders lok themselves and see that they do not have enough muscles.
    Why we try to “cure” the anorexic and we instead “agree” and say to the trans that indeed he is a “female” when he is a male (or coversely for FtM)?
    It really defies any logic to me nd moreover it denies reality, therefore I call it out as “religion”.
    What do you think?
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I think trolling is against the forum guidelines.

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I am not troling at all, I am trying to make a honest, open discussion. Why do you think I am trolling?
I am really uinterested in an open debate on this topic.
As Bill Maher says (and I always follow his videos): at the right we have people that deny global warming is anthropogenic, at the left people who deny biology: in both cases we have people that deny reality

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it’s the only plausible explanation I can see.

A false dichotomy if ever there was one, and trans people are not denying biology, maybe you should learn a little bit about a topic before making sweeping bigoted claims about the people involved.

Nope, try again, and that’s before we glance through the rest of that garbage you posted.

That’s insane, the idea we would euthanise healthy people, let alone minors is appalling.

That’s not an abortion, and again I can’t fathom why you think this is justified.

Again insane…

The insanity goes on…

Oh dear…

At the very least troubling objection, would be how you envisage an animal giving consent?

Again this has to be trolling.

You’re wrong, and you clearly are a bigot. You also don’t seem to understand the difference between gender and biological sex.

So what?

No they are very different, gender dysphoria is not considered a psychiatric condition, anorexia is, again the level of ignorance of the most basic facts is startling, you need to educate yourself on these topics before making sweeping claims.

Anorexia is a psychiatric condition, gender dysphoria is not, and the person suffering from the latter is not ill, they were simply born with a different gender identity to their biological sex.

I doubt you have even the most basic grasp of the principles of logic, or even what logic is or what it does.

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Schatzy, I am a wittingsteinist, I speak only about subjects I know and I have deepened.
Euthanasia on healthy minors: in the Netherlands is possible, no one get it as a scandal but as a normal thing, as long as you think “healthy” referred to human body, they have psychiatric disease.

I like to make legal all things thart people do on the black market, as long as they do not harm others in doing thins. If 3 or more persons want to be legally married what is the problem? Same for prostitution, what is the problem? And if someone like to be sexually intercoursed once is dead, what should be the problem? Remember Mein teil of Rammstein? Mein Teil - Wikipedia
If someone want to fuck an animal in a legal marriage, why should we oppose it s long as he does not cause pain to the animal?
I do know the difference between sex and gender, just that I think if you need to do the “supercazzola*” as we call it in italian (speaking double dutch to explain one thing) then it is “complicated” to say the least. Look, I have no issue with trans people, I worked with some of them, but as I said I am scientifically intrigued by people that look at one thing and see another, the functioning of the human brain is extremely fascinating. I have a cousin and she is a famous psychiatrist in Italy and she tells me (and I think her opinion is way more informed than our) “99% of gender disphoria in the last 2 decades (because numbers are increasing) van be cured with a couple of bitchslap and telling them to accept reality, but we cannot do since the general opinion now impose us to tell them they are right though they are not”.
The west is in deep cultural crisis because we are shooting ourselves in the foot for not letting people face reality, as simple as that.

*My Friends (film) - Wikipedia

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That is demonstrably untrue.

Psychiatric disorders are treatable, and people who suffer them are often not in a position to make sound decisions about their own wellbeing, let alone minors. You have simply repeated your claim, and added a bare appeal to numbers, an argumentum ad populum fallacy, again this suggests you have no grasp of logic.

I note you failed to address the majority of my objections, now why would that be I wonder…I still think you are trolling FWIW.

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People accept their euthanasia request after more than one psychiatrist after treating them without success certify that their depression is beyond curing possibility. As you can see, I am not trolling at all.
Have you ever deepend the criticism to the DSM manual revisions?
For you it is OK that a bunch of psychiatrist decide what is a “mental disease” and what is not in an open congress raising hands? For me it is not, since a “public vote” is influenced by peer pressure and not science.

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Good for you, I think that is an idiotic sweeping and facile claim.

Straw man fallacy, since I did not object to that, try addressing what I actually objected to.

Same dishonest evasion, again this smacks of trolling on your part.

Necrophilia is considered a psychiatric condition for openers, and a corpse can’t give consent, clearly.

I already offered an objection, try addressing it.

Then you deliberately lied, when you made your sweeping claim about left wing people, denying biology, which is not the true in the case of gender dysphoria.

Yes you clearly do, since you just compared gender dysphoria with a psychiatric condition, anorexia.

It’s dysphoria, not disphoria (sic), and you are either lying, trolling, or she’s a very poor psychiatrist. However all you have offered is an unevidenced claim, that therefore has all the appearance of an appeal to authority fallacy, and all anyone need do is look for the consensus among elite psychiatric bodies in both the UK and the US to see you’re talking utter nonsense, and making up unevidenced stats is simply hilarious.

That’s facile idiotic nonsense.

Ah, another sweeping unevidneced claim, and again the only aporpos response is so what? This doesn’t justify euthanising people who may not be capable of making sound decisions about their own wellbeing, and lest we forget you’re suggesting we pass laws allowing this to be done to minors with psychiatric problems, who are otherwise healthy, it’s asinine nonsense.

Who do you suggest evaluate mental competence, if not those most qualified to do so, fucking carpenters maybe, or car mechanics?

What the fuck are you blathering about?

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cool down liebchen, why do you get easily so triggered? Try not to karening yourself too much and please do not grammarnazing me, I know many languages, all lousily and I make so many typos that I am used to say “I live as I type: fast and with a lot of mistakes”
some answers:

  • public vote: did you have take part in an assembly to vote on some serious issues? Peer pressure means that if you are not holding a secret vote via ballot box and everyone can se what you are voting yu feel the pressure to vote what other expect to see as vote and not what you really think. You are kindly invited to read tis article that explain it
    How Voting and Consensus Created the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III) - PubMed
  • I work all over the world with people from all over the world, the West has clearly lost its compass (and I am very sad about it), it is sufficient you go to work in South Africa, Morocco, SOuth America etc and you realize it, but the topic is too tasty to be discussed as side dish here, we should make a main course of it one of these days.
  • If the person that is dying is telling you that he would like to be fucked once is dead, what would be the specific reason to denying him his last wish? I do not see nay specific objection (it is something that revolts me completely, but we are all different, as long that someone is willing to do it why should not do? It is a common practice among animals
    How Gay Duck Necrophilia Was Discovered | TED Talk | Live Science
  • What is the problem with prostitution? Is a job that is so old that as long as it is consensual and there is not violence for me it is perfectly normal. I don’t like it but a lot of people do so why prohibit it? It is a non sense
    Prostitution among animals - Wikipedia
  • For the euthanasia for psychiatric patients: once a bunch of psychiatrist after treatment declare that the patient is not curable and the patient still want to die, why should we oblige him to live? Non sense to me
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That’s definitely trolling, do it again and I will flag the post,then cut you loose.

I’ve already answered this twice already.

This is still a straw man fallacy, the same as it was the last time I pointed it out. I have not, and do not, object to prostitution per se.

The same unevidenced claim, and you have failed to address my previous objections, so I see little point in repeating them.

It seems you don’t want debate at all, you just want to preach your bizarre and pernicious beliefs.

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If you would just inform yourself via reading articles about the dutch euthanasia you would not be so opposing it. If a group of psichiatrist assess the patient depression as not curable than why do not rely on their expert judgement?
My point is trying to let people get what they want, as long as they do not harm anybody in doing so.
And at least I see that you realized that mental disease is decided in a congress by raising hands and that is peer pressurable, so very weakly scientific. In my family I always mock my cousin, I always tell het psichiatry is not science (or it is only when VS Ramachandran do :wink: )

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It’s your claim, I am not researching it for you.

I already answered this.

Minors, with psychiatric issues, who are will likely have a diminished capacity to make informed decisions about what is best for their well being. Odd how you can indulge the suicidal impulse of an under age psychiatric patient, but struggle to acknowledge that gender dysphoria is not a psychiatric condition, and claim the majority can be “cured” by physical violence.

I realise no such thing, this is another straw man fallacy, I even stated clearly that psychiatric diagnosis are best made by those most qualified to make such assessments.

Pretty ironic, given you don’t seem to understand how psychiatric assessments and consensus are reached, and yes psychiatry is a scientific field of medicine that studies the mind and brain, and aims to treat mental disorders.

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Ironic? As I said tangentially (quoting Ramachandran) there are different “psychatric schools”, the “Ramachandran like” is very scientific, the Freudian one for example is a pile of rubbish, as well as the Jungian etc)
LEt’s do it like this: come back to discuss about psochiatry once you studied it, then it will be easier to speak and you will also grasp that “(Word removed by mod)” a 10 YO that comes in your practice telling you he wants puberty blocker because he sense is a female is metaphorical and it is anyway better than giving puberty blocker, a practice now even the britons realized is “slightly” wrong.

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That’s not what you claimed, here it is for clarity:

You’re moving the goalposts.

You’re the one whose claims are at odds with the axioms of elite psychiatric associations, not me.

I grasp that your facile assertions, and sweeping generalisations are not derived from any study of psychiatry, and your claim physical violence towards a child is efficacious is risible, not least because gender dysphoria is not considered a psychiatric condition.

Your latest straw man is not derived from any claim I have made, since I have made no such claims, and again the irony is palpable, given you’re the one suggesting children suffering from depression should be euthanised, and children seeking help with gender dysphoria should be physically assaulted in 90% of cases, your dishonest trolling is becoming tedious now.

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My cat has a higher ToM* than you in understanding metaphoric language. Really, when I say “slap” a child I think is quite clear that is a metaphorical one. If you cannot grasp it, I do not know what to say.
Anyway, this discussion inspires me a post on gay couples adoption. I tried the conversation with the gays in my circles and some of them agree with me and some other not, so I am interested in getting the forum feedback

*Theory of mind - Wikipedia

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FWIW @europeanatheist is on ignore for three months, if I see others responding as if he’s offering something other than trolling I shall rethink that. Otherwise I shall revisit that decision in the new year.

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European Atheist, I think you are pretending to be a liberal and/or an atheist for the purpose sowing discord and ridicule instead of having an honest exchange of ideas.

I don’t come into your church and start claiming that every clergy person is a pedophile.

We are very cordial here. Why do you have to be nasty?

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image

I had not heard of him so I had to do a quick check. Not that this has anything to do with anything. The assertion of Freudian Psychology being foundationless is a modern perception, and how did we get there? (More Science) LOL. Without science how would we ever know? At the same time, it is the aspects of ‘Regression’ and ‘Causality’ that are at the core of rejecting Freud’s foundational principles. The concept of ‘Labido’ and the division of the mind into ‘id, ego,’ and ‘superego.’ Many of the concepts are not factual or empirical in any way. (However: During WWII, with Freud’s story, the oedipal complex, for example, Europeans knew the stories were symbolic. It took the Americans and the Germans to begin pretending Freud’s stories had something to do with reality.

Anyway, I am off on a tangent. I really just wanted to post the picture of Ramachandran. Now, is someone pulling my chain, or did Cheech of ‘Cheech and Chong’ decide to go back to school?
image

Dr. Ramachandran’s major areas of research are: cognitive neuroscience, behavioral neurology - the study of cognitive and perceptual deficits in human neurological patients, neural plasticity and “phantom limbs”, stroke rehabilitation, human visual perception/cognition, and visual psychophysics.

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Moreover, Ramachandran explained muslim religion as the “aftershock” of frontal lobe epilepsy attacks in Muhammad. It is really funny to think that people blow themselves off and kill random people because they want to intercourse with 77 virgins in heaven (and I always discus with my fellow muslim friends: it is horrible to intercourse with a virgin, it would be much better having just 7 women but very well expert in sexual practices so they can teach you something :wink: ), and all of this is just invented by an epileptic guy.

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Then your cousin is a horrible person, and full of shit. Sorry.

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