hello everyone I’m a new member here, and I really appreciate this community. my question is “should you fight religion as an atheist?” and by fight I don’t mean violence, I mean trying to convince other theists that they are not right, and what if you can fight religion and you don’t is that immoral. because from what I read and watched about Richard Dawkins, he makes feel like it is immoral to not do so.
Personally, I believe that religion no longer offers exclusive support, and can and should be replaced by other methods.
For example, five hundred years ago if a person was suffering a personal crisis, about the only thing available was talking to a priest. But in today’s world, there are better trained professionals and support that can do a much better job than any priest.
Then when we examine the ills and pitfalls religion offers, it becomes a burden on society and in some scenarios, is extremely harmful.
That being said, for some people in some areas of the world, religion is all they have for support and guidance. It is not perfect, but it is better than nothing.
For myself, I prefer to undermine reasons people have for religion and worshiping their god. Plant the seeds of doubt, make them think and question their beliefs and their god.
I can never force anyone do leave their religion, but I sure can hold the door open for them, even show them the way out.
Fight? Do you mean stand on street corners, knock on doors, challenge every Christian you meet, take your buddies to Church on Sunday to play Sermon Bingo?
There is no fight. I don’t need to convince anyone of anything. How do you like it when the Christians try to convince you that you are a filthy sinning piece of shit worthy of hell? Why would you want to behave like a Christian?
I think it’s enough to simply be open to discussion. When you hear bullshit, poit it out and be able to explain why it is illogical. It is enough to hold yourself up as an example of a person who does not hold a belief in magic or magical things.
Richard is a bit overboard when it comes to attacking theists. He is specifically targeting the theist perception of "science, and more specific than that, “biology and evolution.” He is not as concerned with belief in God, but with the results this belief has on science.
Richard, bless his heart, is not one of the more rational atheists out there in the world today.
I 100 percent agree with, religion is no longer of any practical use. but in some areas in this world (and I’m not talking about terrorists) people still fully rely on religion and god, when they can do things by them selves or be more productive. they are good people and they have potential but religion hold them back and they can’t do anything about it. It’s like they are killing their own brain cells on purpose.
I respect your opinion, you probably live in a more moderate country than where I live. where I live religion is holding people back. we can be 10 times more moderate if we get rid of it, so it feels like it is immoral not to do anything about it.
Been there, done that. This method does not contribute to societal well-being.
I prefer to weigh “morality issues” within a framework of positive/negative (as attract or repel …think magnets not judgement) and is this a step towards better or “less” harm.
The “right to believe” is fundamental to human thought and expression. Equal access for people of all “beliefs” is something (an idea) I support.
When it comes to enacting “beliefs” on society this is where discussion is vital and legal/legislative action/involvement is needed AND or guarded (protected if in place).
Beliefs about women, men, children, sexuality,
race etc. can have a tremendous effect on those who live within societies that hold superstitious/hate beliefs.
Many in your generation have the same goals and a desire for more secular/moderate societies. Whether your eventual opinion/view is enacted via voting, political involvement, joining certain “groups” that advocate, etc… public pressure and where you spend your dollars also speaks volumes.
No one said not to do anything. Write a book. Start a website. Start a meet-up. Schedule a debate with a local theist. Running about randomly challenging theists is not going to get you anywhere.
What people believe privately is none of my business. They could worship Anubis, Inanna, Zeus, Shiva, the Two Heavenly Bureaucrats, Odin or Russel’s teapot for all I care. But the moment it is brought out in public to make claims or to try to convert people, I consider it free game for me to argue against. If I so desire or think it is worth the effort. Heck, by arguing against something, I could even learn things when reading up on it, so that’s a bonus.
Of course not, atheism has no moral code. It is only a disbelief in gods, not a philosophy or moral position.
If you mean as a moral person? I don’t believe so. My position is that religion is almost universal because it meets some important human needs. What you choose to do about it is entirely your decision
Religion may eventually die ,as people lo become better off and better educated.
What do you expect to happen if religion is fought and destroyed? IE what will replace it?
I am a pagan. BUT I agree that Abrahamic religion is HOLDING us Back!!! It is immoral to NOT resist it! What if we never revolted against religion - we would still be praying instead of curing people!
I personally feel that man inherently has a need to believe in something beyond here. But when that belief hinders progress then it’s terrible and must be DEFEATED. We pagans don’t have a strict written book/law. We believe we are PART OF GoD! It’s our responsibility to use the talent given to us to reduce suffering and have as much FuN as possible here in this carnation. Most NON-Biblical spirituality believe we are kinda on our own here - we just believe in afterlife
That is a policy I agree on, but it is not doctrine. Once any organization places obligations on it’s memebers most of the time things eventually go sideways.
Those may be your personal beliefs, and you may be an atheist, but please do not place me in such a group. My personal beliefs differ greatly from yours.
Can you define afterlife and why you believe in it?
I stated at the beginning (and didn’t think it necessary to continually repeat it) I’m a PAGAN… I used “we” to refer to “we Pagan religions “. The only difference in a pagan and an atheist is pagans believe in afterlife. The difference between a pagan and an Abrahamic is: a huge book of complicated laws and fascist dogma.
Good for you.
I don’t give a shit.
We don’t believe in gods or practice a religion. Get your shit straight.
I don’t give a shit what Theistic bullshit religion you are.
Uh - ever hear of the Enlightenment.
Why “fight/revolt”? It only cycles. Why not present an alternative and allow people to make choices?
If it’s a beneficial choice, demonstrable to improve life/well-being, most move towards it. Some never do, however THAT is their choice (until they infringe on others via physical harm or lawmaking that doesn’t recognize others).
As far as “praying instead of curing people” many a medical advancement was made by religious folk who had a curious desire to know more and pursued it. The scientific method is used today by all genders, races, religious beliefs, sexual preferences (you know, humans) through its own evolutionary process.
So? You’re still a superstitious lot. Why involve it as a counter? Can you speak for each and every pagan or only the ones you associate with? Sorta like tossing “Christian” around, like it describes Christian type religions/worship. There’s a whole lot of variety and expression within paganism.
So - keep your unevidenced, irrational beliefs to yourself. YOU don’t get to spew dreams of revolt and an “if” history (via rose-coloured lens) just because you feel a certain way and expect your assertions to be more acceptable because you have a “Nairy-fairy feel good theology”.
Besides - if what you say is “true” doesn’t “god” in these parts have the wisdom and ability to play out these roles?
I disagree. The only definition I agree on is I lack a belief in a god. Whether or not I believe in an afterlife is a separate issue.
FYI: Pagan: Losely interpreted, simply means non-Christian. To a Christian mind, the Muslims are pagan. " In 2009, anthropologist Gregory Starrett wrote, “a recent survey by the Council for American Islamic Relations reports that as many as 10% of Americans believe Muslims are pagans”
Many “Pagans” do worship Gods. Deist, Pantheist, or actual ancient Roman, Greek, Egyptian or other. Calling one’s self “Pagan” does very little to define anything.
Buddhists also believe in an afterlife and they also qualify as Pagans. Our friend Socialdarwin is saying absolutely nothing about anything while imagining he has it all worked out in his own mind.
A better word for muslim would be “infidel” in sense 1 (but also 2a and 3) below, although muslims use “infidel” for those not believing in their particular branch of islam. Although both pagan (sense 2) and infidel (sense 2b) fit me, “irreligious” would be a better word. But I prefer atheist, as it conveys the meaning of non-belief better, imho.
Definition of pagan
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : heathen sense 1 especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
Contrast with infidel:
Definition of infidel
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
2a : an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion
b : one who acknowledges no religious belief
3 : a disbeliever in something specified or understood
That’s as helpful as a definition as the word ‘Christian’
Animists my be called Pagan, so too Hindus. Are you a Wiccan? It would be helpful to give a run down on what your Paganism entails. Perhaps a brief manifesto. Do you follow any specific writings or teachings?
So far, your posts have been too vague [for me] to understand what it is you actually believe. Eg What exactly do you mean by life after death? There many ideas from which on may choose. ."