Introductory Thread

I don’t. I want you to not believe in it.

Fuck off and stop this shit talking.

If you do not desire to engage in rational and adult conversation, I will just send you packing.


LOL… Can you demonstrate the authors of the gospels were written by the names of the people who appear on them. Not even your bible asserts knowledge of the authors of the gospels. We don’t know the authors of the gospels.

It’s commonly accepted that the authors of the bible, NT, were well versed in Greek. I don’t know of any modern main stream theologian who asserts he knows the authorship of the gospels. We also have to question 9 of Paul’s epistles and their authorship.

Regardless: No one cares who wrote the bible. The bible is a book of stories. It is not evidence of anything. It is the claim. It is a book of claims and assertions not eyewitness and testamony,. It is a collection of ancient stories written by believers.

It has nothing to do with whether or not a God exists. I can get the exact same evidence about Big
Foot, Space Aliens Visiting Earth, and Reptilians hiding among us. What you present with the bible is the worst possible evidence you could possibly present. Stories about stories and assertions without evidence.

All this Bible stuff is a Red Herring. Why would anyone give a damn what the bible said or who wrote it? It’s an anthology. A collection of ancient Christian stories that were cherry-picked from among ancient stories. Although the 19 books contained within this text were included in the Holy Bible for thousands of years, they were removed a little over 200 years ago .Missing biblical texts include; 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, The Book of Tobit, The Book of Susanna, Additions to Esther, The Book of Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, The Epistle of Jeremiah, The Prayer of Azariah, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasses, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Mary.

Suddenly, after 1800 years, someone has the power and insight to change the Bible? Really? This is all just silliness.

What is the point of any of this?


@Semmelweis_Reflex bible also doesn’t say that Moses wrote first five books, it doesn’t say that Luke wrote gospel of Luke, nor Matthew, Mark or John have written gospels named after them.
But it does say that earth is created in 6 days

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I’m not acting like anything. Most of them aren’t real. Some of them are. You are ignorantly rejecting them but that doesn’t matter. You should reject them for whatever reason you see fit. That’s none of my business. I’m here to observe you. If you act like children that’s what I observe. If you are ignorant smart asses that’s what I observe. If you want me to express my observation I will. I won’t necessarily react. If you want to have a meaningful dialogue I’m up for that. If you want to learn from me that would be cool. If you don’t, that’s cool. But, I observe you. Right now I see arrogance and ignorance. Everything’s a joke until you get pissed. I see spoiled children. I’m not here to make friends and I don’t need a slap on the back from the head of the pack.

All I want is to climb every mountain , ford every stream , follow every rainbow, 'till you find your dream. A dream that will . . . sorry. I got confused.

So? I’m asking him questions. I want to know why he believes what he believes and he was, up to a point, very helpful. You have a problem with thinking? You don’t think you have some ideas about what I believe? You don’t question, criticize, mock, scorn what billions of people believe on a daily fucking basis?

So, correct me. Simply, rationally, without the childish hyperbole to impress your group. Start a new thread on the subject. Mention me and I’m there.

That doesn’t make any sense. A typo? You thought my not being atheist would help what? I was an atheist for 27 years. For the past quarter of a century I have devoted most of my time debating atheists online. Everyone I know, friends and family are atheists with only one exception. I have a website devoted primarily to atheism.

Atheists fascinate me. Theist bore me. Atheists are damaged in some way. If you made androids and some of them acted in a peculiar manner you would be puzzled, curious, maybe if the behavior were extreme you would be fascinated. My perspective on atheists is like that.

You’ve just described religion. Is militant fundamentalist atheism primarily a product of sociopolitical frustration with theocracy? And don’t give me the bullshit about atheism only being about disbelieving gods.

Interesting. There are two possible ways it could do that. Theism and atheism.

It doesn’t matter. If science corrects itself that means at some point the science you thought was real wasn’t. How did that impact you? Now you know better? Okay, but what about then and how can you know what you know now is real. It doesn’t matter if it’s real or not.

Besides, you don’t have the merit to make that claim. In effect it becomes real in a sense at least. Even if it isn’t real, and most of it isn’t, it still impacts you. You wouldn’t be here proclaiming atheism or agnosticism or whatever it is you proclaim if it didn’t matter.

Okay. Then what the fuck was the point in you saying it in the first place?

More than you? Sounds like an ideologue to me. Just another side of the same coin.

And you want to tell the world about that? It’s important to be a vocal part of a group of like minded ideologues? Why waste your time? How is that different than the idiots you don’t give two shits for?

I’ve done it like 5 times in this thread. A deity is simply something or someone who is worshipped. Some exist and others don’t. Besides which, if you want to confirm your hypothesis and prevent any possible danger it may incur then the first step is to educate yourself on the subject. Your typical atheistic response to debate is scorn, mock, shame, anger, ignorance and in effect plugging your ears and saying “blah, blah, blah.”

I have to keep saying this. Christians are idiots. I’m talking about you and I. If I had my evidence in my left hand and yours in my right I would fall over on my left tit, 'ya fuck. :upside_down_face: It’s a tired ass lame excuse. You won’t even get to the point of looking at the evidence. Evidence doesn’t mean anything. It’s just examination.

Oh. You’se guys. Poor bastards. Somone’s always moving the goalposts or splitting your hairs. You’re just paralyzed by these distractions. Just answer the questions for fuck’s sake.

[Sighs] Finally. A reasonable comment is like a cool summer breeze.

Look. This thread should have been done. I don’t like fucking around with them more than 24 hours and I have a post limit. At least for now, apparently. The six days comment I will address in my other thread. Your comment on authorship isn’t entirely accurate, but I don’t think it’s terribly important.

Part of my problem here is that whatever I write is like it’s printed on toilet paper. Pearls before swine. You get the point of that expression? It isn’t that you are pigs, it’s that swine have no use of pearls.

Moses is credited, others are, but it doesn’t really matter enough to get into it when the supposition only really intends to establish documentary theory anyway. Just cut to the chase. But not in this tired and convoluted thread. That sound reasonable?

Impact of imaginary deities is as wide as imagination itself. It goes both ways, both horrendous and wonderful extremes, and everything in between.

What is the point?

Just exactly that. You hit the, uh, proverbial nail right on the head.

You are free to start a new tread. Post limits will end soon.

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Why would you then use a concept with a known flaw?

Can you name anything in the history of mankind without known flaws?

I’m confused. Why?

It’s just that most people whom are of a religion that come on here want me and the others to believe in it. Most Christians I have met or know in my real life want me to believe in their god. You seem different though.

Wow. What made you change your mind?

Someone told me on here that no amount of evidence would satisfy me. They’re wrong. I don’t buy into the Bible or the other claims. That doesn’t show me a god nor does it prove one. Gods aren’t normally silent as the grave. Look at Zeus. That guy liked getting attention. He even couldn’t resist raping women. He and Poseidon were just alike. Thor couldn’t resist showing off his powers to mortal men. These gods made themselves known. They wanted fame and glory. The Christian deity made itself known to men in the Old Testament. It made itself pretty damn obvious. It had a “do as I command or I’ll kill you complex”. But we’re not seeing that behavior outside of those mythologies.

Those deities left no evidence even though the stories claim they did many many things. They talk to no one. Not even their own followers. Their followers lie about talking to a god. When you pray, you talk to yourself. All I see Christians wanting me to do is pray, go to church, and give the church MONEY!!!

It’s kind of like Big Foot or Loch Ness. If you can capture it, get DNA evidence, or bring me a corpse. I’ll buy it. If you have a machine that can locate a deity and communicate with it, I’ll buy it. If you can do magic like Jesus from the Bible, I’ll buy it. If you can summon a deity, I’ll buy it. If you’re a Satanist and can summon Lucifer to make me filthy rich, okay. But no Christian ever demonstrates Jesus’ promises or they themselves ever do miracles.

So there’s a lot not being demonstrated. I can’t go off of a book written by men. I can’t go off of other people’s pretty words that there is a deity. I need objective evidence. Give me something super duper compelling.

From what frame of reference?

Natural methodology is a process without flaw. Another example would be any medical remedy, insulin, washing hands, penicillin.

Are you trying to equate theology with natural methodology.

Holy shit you stupid fuck, I tell myself, read it before you post. I’ll edit this mess up.

I read the Bible. I thought perhaps I could debunk the Bullshit religion that hypocritically judged me in the small midwestern town I grew up in. I found they had little to do with one another.

Why not? The objective to a true believer is to introduce a teaching so that, if there be interest, it can then be pursued by the one who is presented with it. It’s up to them. The point isn’t to convert it’s to inform so that the possible student can make an informed decision to accept or reject the proposal. Either outcome is satisfactory. But I’m not here for that so much as I am to learn what makes y’all think. I’ll throw stuff out there to see your reaction and discuss it but that’s about it.

That’s mostly ideological fixation, though, isn’t it. All people are like that about everything. My team, my country, my politics, my music, my art, my wine, my education, my class . . . . . the phenomenon isn’t exclusive to religion. That sort of thing with atheists and especially theists may be in the guise of personal concern, but it isn’t really. It’s just bullshit. Which is why I think pretty much everything is bullshit. And when I look into it I almost always discover it is.

Thanks for posting the J.P. video. I had some questions I wanted to ask you, but they are now unnecessary. Thanks.


Lol - he’s not the only one observing.

I have my own take on what he is by his posts.


:joy::joy: Believe it or not, Mr. Semm, that got me tickled a little. Because, if I’m being honest with myself, I am subject to doing the same thing now and then, depending on my mood and the situation. :joy::joy:

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That may be true in your case. It may not be. I don’t think we should judge others harshly in that regard. It’s up to them. I hate math. And grammar. And directions. I just can’t get it. Don’t want to get it. Well, that’s a weakness that I sometimes have to reconcile with. On a somewhat related note, if a person doesn’t want to evaluate the evidence for something they think is nonsensical or irrational that’s their business.

A lot of times, though, people say one thing when they mean another. It’s a poorly thought out expression of an emotional nature. If I start complaining about math, grammar and directions it isn’t those things I’m complaining about. Honesty and self awareness may not fix one’s problems but it can be constructive in other ways.

Yeah. We are almost always wrong.

Okay. That’s good. Fair enough.

You mean the people who invented them presented them as if they wanted fame and glory? Was this a reflection of themselves or society at large? For instruction? So, then I would look at how people react to various deities. Sacrificing their children by fire for a bountiful crop; killing two birds with one stone? What is a modern equivalent that would have been prevalent then as well? War.

I’m trying to differentiate my perspective as a believer from your perspective as an unbeliever and then addressing this from the latter. But first, from the former, just an aside. There is no Old and New Testament. The traditional terminology and subsequent distinction is based upon a faulty premise from a Latin mistranslation. That isn’t relevant, I’m just pointing it out. I sometimes use the terms myself for distinction.

I think it’s important to recognize that the Bible narrative in this context was temporal and geographically limited. So there was this alleged division of people into a nation for specific reasons. All of it’s settlers are gathered in one place and read the law and unanimously agree and swear to uphold it. So, your allegation is that the deity in question, Jehovah, was created to control the people? Who, by the way, failed miserably in upholding the aforementioned laws.

So, the control was unsuccessful, the deity was imagined, the events were manufactured mythological manifestations of the deity’s fabricator’s frustration? These remain useful today and it is counterproductive to educate yourself on these but you have them all figured out nonetheless? Just dismiss them as nonsense?

Lucifer is a Latin word meaning light bearer. A metaphoric application to people who prophetically herald a new day. Dawn. Jesus, for example, or Nebuchadnezzar as representative of the Babylonian empire. Lucifer, like luciferase, an enzyme that catalyzes the oxidation of a luciferin, causing it to produce a visible glow. Lightning bugs, glow worms, Bill Gates vaccine tattoo. The word only appears once in poor translations. It isn’t Satan, it’s Nebuchadnezzar. (Isaiah 14:4, 12)

But, anyway, riches aside, it doesn’t really matter if you believe in the alleged deities or not in that you could, like the demons, know and yet shudder. Believing isn’t necessarily acceptance.

You problem is with theocracy, isn’t it? If the evidence were presented to your satisfaction it wouldn’t constitute trust or acceptance of said deity, so the point is moot. Unless it is an ideological fixation and sociopolitical frustration with theocracy. Mostly ideological.

No you don’t. You just know it won’t be provided and if it were you would deny it more vehemently than you protest the fictional manifestation. Like I said, it’s a moot point anyway. Just a bunch of complaining about something other than what you’re complaining about.