Introductory Thread

Hello, there, atheist republic! Glad to be here and appreciate the opportunity to discuss what interests me the most. I’m theist myself, have been for about 30 years. I became a theist when I was 27. Before that I wouldn’t have identified as a member of any particular group - even now I don’t do that - I leaned towards agnostic and was, and still am, emphatically irreligious. We can get into all of that for clarification and debate if you’re interested, but my primary reason for being here is to learn, on a deep level, why you, as atheists, believe what you believe.

I’m not here to convert anyone, that would be stupid. No one converts anyone. All of that is pretty much group think, which I loath. Group is the root of all theistic and atheistic paradigms, in my opinion. But, let’s keep this intro simple. I have a pretty good idea of what you believe, so what about what I believe.

That’s tricky. I pretty much disagree with all theistic and atheistic paradigms, as I mentioned above. I have never been, nor ever will be a part of any social, political or religious group. I’m apolitical and irreligious. That’s what, as they say, makes the world go 'round.

I’m a student of the Bible. A Bible believer. I pretty much categorize everyone in this context as being either believers or unbelievers. All of the normative terms are pretty much nonsensical to me. Useful only as a very general identification. My beliefs regarding the Bible and theology are most similar to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, only because they have removed all of the pagan nonsense from theology. I see much of their teachings when they deviate from that as being very problematic.

So, there. I’ve pretty much alienated everyone . . . let’s begin, shall we?

Welcome Atheist Republic theme park. Keep your head and arms in the car at all times. If you want to feed the atheists you’ll have to see @Cognostic for the treats. He charges somewhere between 50 to 100 dollars per treat. So no haggling!

Atheist Republic is a social group.

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Welcome to Atheist Republic Semmelweis_Reflex. I don’t think you alienated anyone, in fact your description of yourself offers an insight on your position and possible lines of inquiry.

I participate in this forum for a number of reasons, one prime is to learn. And without any doubt, I have learned a shit-load of stuff in here.

Speaking for the atheists in here, we have a mixed bag of many different life stories, education, and skills.

For example in 2010 I experienced having losing my vital signs twice, so by definition I suffered a near death experience. That makes me a sort of expert on NDE’s. The positive aspect is now I have two birthdays, and I can demand sex from my wife twice a year. lol


I hope you’re not insinuating that we all have to be social in here? I take umbrage at that.

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You don’t know what an agnostic is for starters… Christians and Atheists are Agnostics. Most of us on the site are Agnostic-atheists. Agnostic is about knowledge (A = without) (Gnosis = knowledge of god)
Atheist is about 'belief." (A= without) (Theist = belief in god.) You do not need knowledge to believe in god (Pascal’s Wager). Most Christians have no actual knowledge and believe in God anyway. What are you counting as Knowledge, that sways you to believe in god. If you believe in a God you are a theist…If you do not believe in a God you are an Atheist. Agnosticism is what you think you know about that god.

Atheism is not a belief system. There is a god or there is not a god. This is the simple fact. If you assert a god exists, you have adopted a burden of proof. You must provide evidence for your claim. In science there is a thing called the ‘Null Hypothesis.’ Simply stated, it asserts A is not related to B until there is evidence relating A to B. God is not related to Existence until there is evidence relating God to existence. There is no reason to believe in the existence of a god until evidence for that existence is provided.

Does that mean atheists do not believe in god? NO. If I assert God does not exist, I must also provide evidence for that claim. I do not have to assert God does not exist to make the claim “You have not met your burden of proof and I have no reason to believe in your god claim.” That leaves me in the position of being an Agnostic Atheist. I have no idea if a God does not exist but I do know that every god claim I have ever heard falls short of actually providing evidence for the existence of a god.

With that said, once you define your god, I may very well take a position that your god does not exist. If I did so, It would be based on facts. For example. If you tell me you believe in the god of the bible and that he is wholey just and merciful, I do not believe in that god. It is a logical impossibility. A square circle. Mercy is the suspension of Justace. A god can not be both wholey merciful and wholey just. This god thing does not exist.

So far you have not demonstrated that. I have already pointed to a couple of errors that appear apparent in your approach.

There is no atheistic paradigm. It does not exist. Atheism is a response to a single claim, “God exists.” Anything beyond the response to that claim IS NOT ATHEISM. It may be biology, as in evolution arguments. It may be cosmology, as in first cause arguments. It may be psychology, as in moral arguments. None of this is Atheism. None of this is an idology. The fact that many atheists are scientifically grounded does not mean we are a homogenous group. There are a whole lot of very strong opinions on a whole lot of interesting topics around here.

A Bible believer? That really has no meaning. There are literalists and people searching for the magical biblical code. All theists who read the bible imagine themselves to be ‘Bible Believers’ and yet we have 36,000 different christian faiths and Soteriology varies throughout the faith. On any given day 1/3 of all Christians will swear to you that the other 2/3s are not real Christians and bound for the pits of hell. This is what studying the bible results in.

LOL – and about 90% of the good Christians out there will swear the JW are a cult and bound for hell.

Welcome to the site. Pick a topic and try to stay on it for the best results.

It occurs to me now, that since you follow teachings similar to JW, you believe 90% of ther Christians out there are headed for hell. Interesting.


You missed the ‘h’ key. Did you notice?


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Welcome Atheist Republic theme park. Keep your head and arms in the car at all times. If you want to feed the atheists you’ll have to see @Cognostic for the treats. He charges somewhere between 50 to 100 dollars per treat. So no haggling!

Okay. I don’t have any idea what you are talking about, but, I’ll take your word for it.

Bring plenty of these.

Virtually. I’m not a part of it. I’m an observer. Perhaps there are other observers here. That’s how I look at it.

I’m sure I’m not the only antisocial passerby.

Fish sticks? Uh . . . I’ve got corned beef on . . .

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@Bluedoc Okay. Religion to me is, in its most basic sense, is a strict adherence to a set of principles or repetitive behavior. Everyone is religious. Or as Penn & Teller said: “Everyone’s got a grie grie.” By irreligious I mean areligious. Not having anything to do with organized religion. Religious doesn’t necessarily mean theist. Theist doesn’t necessarily mean Biblical or Abrahamic. Theology doesn’t necessarily mean Bible. So, I look at everything, as much as possible, and I see the strengths and weaknesses. Real boats rock. Frank Herbert: Chapterhouse Dune - "Show me a completely smooth operation and I’ll show you someone who’s covering mistakes. Real boats rock.”

I, myself, fucking rock! Yeah!

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Is that definition a religion?

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A head scratcher, I’ll give you that.

and all the Captain D’s you can muster!

Captain D's

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Correct. Before becoming a believer I was agnostic. Without knowledge of god.

Well, there are countless gods. Anything or anyone can be a god. So theist only pertains to any of these gods. Then you have to be specific about belief. If I believe in my father that means I trust in him. If I don’t believe in him that obviously means I don’t trust in him. It says nothing of existence. A god doesn’t have to literally exist, so what’s belief? Is belief debatable? Can we pit my belief against your belief or, if you insist, lack thereof. That’s silly.

Interesting. That’s what they say about science, as well. I’m not buying that. Everything is opinion. Everything is subject to interpretation.

Okay. Definition of god.

In Christianity, the creator and ruler of the universe; supreme being and source of all moral authority.
One having power over nature and human fortunes. An idol or the conventional personification of fate.
An adored, admired or influential person or anything given supreme importance. Money, for example.
A god can be a gallery, that is, the upper balcony in a theater or the people seated there.

You need a reason to believe or disbelieve? That seems odd to me. For example, does a believer believe for the reason that they want to and an unbeliever not believe because they don’t? In most cases, I don’t doubt it. In my opinion one can’t choose what to believe or disbelieve. For example, an agnostic atheist is a person without knowledge of god and without god. If you are without knowledge then where is your reason? It’s something else. That’s my belief. Atheism is a product of a sociopolitical frustration with theocracy. That would make me an atheist. But I’m not.

So, I can’t be a theist with knowledge and you can’t be an atheist with knowledge. Game over. Lunch anyone? I have corned beef. Just a slab on the table. No chains. Prometheus has left the building. Tear off a chunk like a wild animal. That’s how I roll.

Well, those terms are subjective, though, aren’t they? The question regarding the specific god, Jehovah, can only be taken from one possible source. What does it say? First what does complete just and mercy mean? What are the stipulations? That sort of thing.

Then the same must be said of theism, correct?

It means I believe in, that is trust (like the Latin term from which comes credentials, credible etc.), the Bible.

What’s really interesting is that the JWs, like myself, don’t believe in the pagan teachings of hell because they are contrary to the Bible, which doesn’t teach hell. The immortal soul teaching comes from Socrates, the trinity from Plato, the Cross from Constantine, Christmas from Dickens, Easter from Ishtar, the rapture from Darby. None of it Biblical. All of it from more ancient teachings, mostly going back to Babylon and Sumerian. Like evolution from Greek philosophy. Aristotle, Empedocles, Anaxagoras, and Anaximander.

Do you think that bible is special? Compared to other ancient literature, what is it that you find attractive in bible?