In defence of hedonism

@Joygirl

The bible you spout as an authority has a dubious origin, I suggest you examine it’s true history from a secular viewpoint. Personally, I do not accept a bunch of tales from nomadic barbarians from over two thousand years ago, complied with people and organizations with an agenda.

Back to the issue, please respond instead of just evading by ignoring questions.

Once again, please provide any evidence or proof of your god.

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Hmmm :thinking: I remember asking for a simple explanation on …

being the 10 Commandments. Well, Joy-who-Capitalizes-whereEver:
How do you explain this…

God can’t even keep the first 10 Laws straight in his head - shit for memory (happens when you’re old)…

21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them.
When you buy a Hebrew slave,

Quoted verbatim from your bible.

6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

Again, quoted verbatim from Exodus 21

So you’re talking bollocks @Joygirl.

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HAH! I am used to theist apologist contradicting themselves, but as you point out Sheldon, this has to be one of the most common and hilarious examples of a contradiction.

/sarcasm
“god cant be understood…” So, listen to what I have to say about it! Even though I just said this god can not be known. But somehow, magically I know that! And oh I will use this excuse whenever I can not answer some basic questions about how my god idea works. Because I know how an admitted unknowable god works! I know what is knowable and not! I am the supreme authority of the lack of knowledge on my god idea!
/sarcasm

It is a kindergarten recess argument. The sad part is we see adults argue this and make important life decisions off this not even grade school level of reasoning/argument.

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Ummmm… Pink, fluffy, logic?

@Joygirl

Still waiting for any sort of answer from @Joygirl??

This was your original claim:

As I said, no claim is validated because of a lack of contrary evidence, thus your claim is the very definition of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and is therefore by definition irrational…

Seriously go and educate yourself. If you don’t understand a common logical fallacy like an appeal to ignorance fallacy no wonder your posts are irrational tosh.

Why do you believe it is inherent in others to make you feel whether or not your life is good? or how come a life is only valuable if it served the world?

How is your personal happiness not part of these factors?

what’s imho?

And sure many people have beliefs which undercuts their self-esteem, i.e religion. But to have self esteem is to have the feeling of worth to live in the world. I read a book on self esteem, but when it comes down to it, a proper approach to life gradually raises self esteem. Such as self respect, honesty, integrity. Man is the rational animal and he must seek and properly use his mind to survive in life.

As for me @Sheldon, there is nothing wrong with pursuing earthly sensual and self indulgent pleasures, inasmuch, it is done the 3 Rs concurrently - the right time, the right way/moment and still remaining on God’s right side/good side.

The point is that, the greatest hedonism one can have in life is when in the midst and whole of it all, God is glorified and when we are most satisfied through Him. Ultimate hedonism, physical and spiritual pleasure, personal or intimacy between one and partner, should be a greatest pursuit of pleasure, that is the pursuit of pleasure in Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, in the ever presence of God, such manners that God is glorified and you are, whatever is, are pleasurably satisfied, most, in Him.

I am sorry, I put the cart before the horse. I should have first asked you, what to you, is your, the ultimate pleasure?

@Evathyst

My pleasures are mine alone, not granted by any sky daddy.

Not entirely convinced you have grasped the meaning of the term’hedonism’ (see below). Also find it a bit odd that you come to an atheist forum and claim ‘god’ is the answer to well,anything.
You have indeed put the cart before the horse. Before you may reasonably make any calims about god, you must first prove he exists

Not surprising that you have the chutzpah to refer to the [probably mythtical ] Yeshua/Yoshua bar Yussuf as the mashiach/ messiah/annointed one

It has always bemused me that I have never yet come across a christian apologist who has bothered to have actually bothered to have a look at Jewish prophecy about the Mashiach. Had you done so, you would have discovered that Jesus COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN THE MASHIACH.

Just a few reasons, any one of which preclude Jesus as Messiah. : The mashiach is to be a warrior king in the Davidic tradition, he is most certainly NOT DIVINE, and he will not die young.

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Hedonism is a school of thought that argues seeking pleasure and avoiding suffering are the only components of well-being.[1]

Ethical hedonism is the view that combines hedonism with welfarist ethics, which claims that what we should do depends exclusively on what affects the well-being of individuals. Ethical hedonists would defend either increasing pleasure and reducing suffering for all beings capable of experiencing them; or just reducing suffering, in the case of negative consequentialism and negative utilitarianism.[2][3][4][5] Ethical hedonism is said to have been started by Aristippus of Cyrene,[6] a student of Socrates. He held the idea that pleasure is the highest good.[7]

Hedonistic ethical egoism is the idea that each person should do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible to them.[8] It is also the idea that every person’s pleasure should far surpass their amount of pain.[8]

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This wiki entry is a good place to start, if you are able to concede the possibility that you could be in error. If you re unable to do that, please stop wasting my time.

"In Jewish eschatology, the term mashiach , or “Messiah”, refers specifically to a future Jewish king from the Davidic line, who is expected to save the Jewish nation, and will be anointed with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age.[1][2][5][web 1] The Messiah is often referred to as “King Messiah”, or, in Hebrew, מלך משיח ( melekh mashiach ), and, in Aramaic, malka meshiḥa .[6] In a generalized sense, messiah has “the connotation of a savior or redeemer who would appear at the end of days and usher in the kingdom of God, the restoration of Israel, or whatever dispensation was considered to be the ideal state of the world.”[web 1] "

As boomer pointed out, it seems you don’t know what hedonism is.

In my humble opinion.

Yes, I know what self esteem is, but knowing what it is, even understanding how important it is, doesn’t mean we can manage it sometimes. So I would never criticise anyone for the lack of it, as the quote I was responding to seemed to be doing.

Who you have sex with shows what you are attracted to (your values) and when a person lacks self esteem she doesnt seek sex on the premise of values. the effect of having meaningless sex is low esteem, but not the cause of low self esteem.

And people can always recognize their flaws and correct them. Also meaningless sex isnt a bad thing, just when you think you are nothing without it.

I do hope you do not mean to say that ALL meaningless sex indicates low self esteem.

What do you define as “meaningless” sex anyways? Sex without the intent to procreate? Sex without the intent to connect to other person on any other level?

If anyone thinks they are nothing without something they would label as: “meaningless,” then I agree that is a major issue, if anything, an issue about being honest with themselves and self assessment of the importance of the activity.

meaningless sex= just physical pleasure

In your words to not have a relationship with the other person.

The question asks whats wrong with being hedonistic…and its definition is engaged in seeking physical pleasure. Doesnt say in what nature/context .though, why do you want sex? why do you not care about spiritual needs? are factors to consider.

Im kinda confused as what you are trying to say “anyone” is singular pronoun, “they” is a plural pronoun, cant say who is going to label what meaningless.

Hahahaha :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:… nothing wrong with “JUST” physical pleasure when TWO (or more if it tickles your fancy) ADULTS decide to have sex.

Funny how this was comment was directed at women initially…

she

No - sometimes she just seeks sex for sex …so what??? Has nothing to do with “esteem” OR it may - who the fuck knows? Trying to judge her esteem level or value system based on sex is a shitty measuring tool.

UNLESS you are throwing in other “measures”. For example: a man may pay for sex. So what? Is he “afraid” to be in a relationship; or just wants his money going where he “wants” it (sex); or exploiting a woman; or exchanging goods and services; or cheating on his wife/girlfriend/committed partner…

So -
lay off the “personal” judgements of others. You have no idea of their motives or intention, let alone “esteem”…

Hahahaha - “spiritual needs” ??? Unless you’re referring to the point in the experience of orgasm when shouting “ohhh GOD” …

“meaningless sex= just physical pleasure”

This statement was sexually unbiased[quote=“Tabooscientist, post:96, topic:382”]
values
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Change she to anyone and its still sexually unbiased.

It’s funny how people think about any constitutional action should not have to pass verdict. A man who pays for sex to cheat on his wife, is that respect for his wife? No, so his wife would judge him negatively.

“Exploiting a women” A disgraceful thing to do, to not put in human dignity into factor.

I am passing moral judgment in all these examples because man has a mind, and sex is an excersice and how he does it depends on a person nature.

By spiritual I mean love.

But you are right in one sense I have no right to obtruse on anyones behavior, but that does not equate APPROVAL.*

No you don’t. And no adult :adult: will be seeking your “approval” for their decisions and actions. In fact - it’s none of your business.

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