Wasn’t trying to spank you (nope, don’t go there!). Just a reminder. No forgiveness required. Just wish I had as few “bad moments” as you. 
1 Like
It’s all good. Sometimes I need my keister kicked back in place. Just ask my wife. She’s had to do it so many times she could probably try out as a punter for a pro football team. 
Besides, that’s why you get paid the big bucks. Who else around here is gonna keep our rebel asses in line? 
You’re gonna have to hold my nose and force it down me! Good luck with that!.. (rushing to bathroom to cover myself in baby oil)…
Okay, thanks. Gratefully, it wasn’t a severe paddling. But with everything breaking down more and more lately, I just wanted to be sure I didn’t need to make an appointment with the body shop. Oh, and yeah, those are… uh… “rust stains.” Sure, we’ll go with that. 
Be that as it may. And you’re probably not going to rid the system of that evil without sweeping reforms in laws dealing with election campaign funding, political advertisements, and corruption, among other things. But if we for the sake of argument assume that both candidate Orange and candidate Geriatric are in the pockets of “those entities”, each in their own way, they are most probably in the pockets of different entities. So you can at the very least give your input to the question of which “entities” you’d like to indirectly rule. But apart from that, your argument is somewhat akin to false balance, or bothsidesism, where two sides are are being presented as more balanced and equal than what is supported by evidence. In this case, the differences between the two candidates presented here as examples is not only limited to their assumed “overlords”, but also in their factual and implemented politics, both in what they promise and in what they have implemented in practice.
In short, although some of your premises might have merits, I reject your conclusion.
3 Likes
Oh I almost forgot. Proud Boys stand down. Here in Canada where we have more guns per/capita, at least it was reported to be the case twenty years ago, we choose to hunt politician and when they step off their campaign bus toss gravel at them until they retreat. Although we did a fiesty PM (from Quebec naturally) who clocked a protester who tried to pie him. The practice of throwing pies at Pols ended abruptly. The protester wanted to charge the PM with assualt but was dissauded. Sorry to post and run but I have a part to go to.
Since Agent Orange kowtows to the christian nationalists, my vote is going to the geriatric.
2 Likes
Lots of folks forget that they are not voting for an individual, they are voting for an administration.. They are voting for ideals. They are voting for a path. I’m terrified people won’t get that. I’m terrified because too many people don’t understand that this race has only two choices. I’m terrified that the result of this election could bring the end of democracy in the U.S. I’m terrified that my granddaughters will be forced to wear red robes and white hoods. I’m terrified because we can see the damage already done.
Where I sit, we are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.
3 Likes
Bingo! (Well, sort of. CLOSE, but not quite there.) Yes, people are voting for an “administration” and its policies, not for an individual person. Very true. However, regardless of which “administration” is put in place, it is STILL the same masters controlling it. As I have mentioned before, voting in this country now is simply giving the population (average Joe/Jane citizen) the delusion of control (Yes, I used “delusion” on purpose.) The part you missed is that BOTH PARTIES work for the SAME Masters. Meaning, no matter which party (with their respective “ideals” and “paths”) is “elected”, the end game is still the same. And all the EXTREME “differences” in each party’s policy stance is brilliantly crafted (in my opinion) to purposely keep the general public polarized and totally at odds with each other, to avoid them joining together to go against those megalomanic tyrants who want total control over every single aspect of our lives. In other words, BOTH PARTIES are working TOGETHER to bring about the end of our individual freedoms within our country. (Anybody ever heard of “controlled opposition”?)
Just to be clear, please allow me to clarify something. I do not consider myself “affiliated” with ANY political party. Never really ever have been, as far as I can recall. Matter of fact, I consider ALL high level politicians and government “officials” to be EQUALLY corrupt. (Well, that’s not entirely accurate. I do recognize some ARE more corrupt than others.) And I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in dealing with some of the lower level political “crooks”. If anything, I consider myself AMERICAN. I am PROUD of the fact I served my country for over 17 years in the military with three combat deployments. (Despite the fact I look back and question WHY we were sent and what we did/didn’t accomplish in the areas to where we were sent.) So, whether it’s the “Orange Man” or the “Pedo Hair Sniffer”, I honestly don’t give a shit. To me, they are both players acting out their parts having their strings pulled by the insanely rich and powerful overlords seeking dominance over every aspect of our lives. Oh, and before anybody asks, I have NO IDEA what anybody can do about it. What I do know (or strongly suspect), however (And I REALLY hope I am wrong about this.), is that there will come a “planned” moment when We The People have had enough of the bullshit that has been forced down our throats the past few decades. And whenever that happens, things will get very “nasty” indeed. I may or may not still be alive when that happens. Who knows? But it disturbs me to no end that my grandson may have to experience that horrific event at some point during his younger years.
Yes, ma’am, that makes two of us. At this stage, all we can do is hope for a “miracle” of some sort. (Please pardon the “religious” reference.)
Please, tell me who - exactly - will be making those “sweeping reforms”? Those who are in charge now are the VERY ONES who put the “laws” and “policies” in place to begin with. One “tiny” example of this is that those who CONTROL all of those policies and “laws” have been able to VOTE THEMSELVES pay rises since before the time I was born. Please, THINK about that for a moment. Oh, and keep in mind, WE THE PEOPLE are the one who PAY for those raises without them ever consulting us as to whether or not we want them to be paid more. They get PAID with OUR money to decide AMONGST THEMSELVES whether or not WE should pay them MORE money to make such decisions for us to pay them more. Are you catching on yet as to how our system “works”? To put it another way, you might as well ask convicted violent felons in prison to pass policies to INCREASE the punishment for the crimes they committed. Not sure how to make it more clear than that.
A labour cabinet minister from ex mining stock had a similar experience when a protestor thought it would be fun to throw eggs at him, he clobbered the guy with a left hook, he had been an anateur boxer apparently, and the protestor suddenly decided assault was not as funny as he’d previously imagined, and went crying to the police. I am happy to say that the police, once they had cuffed him, and taken him to the nearest police station, and interviewed him under caution, told him if anyone was going to face charges for assault it would rightly be him.
John Prescott’s stock went up after the incident, and he quipped later that he was following the instructions of the PM, who had told them go out and connect with the electorate. That’s pretty witty for John Prescott, still makes me smile.
2 Likes
I didn’t miss anything. I just disagree.
Are there elected officials who are grifters? Sure. But not all are. And guess what…they are elected. There are mayors and state senators and members of The House, and sheriffs and county commissioners who are scoundrels AND THEY WERE ELECTED. And there are decent folks in these positions as well…guess why…yep, they were elected!
I am one of those masters you mentioned. So are you. And, imo, the reason the scoundrels get elected is because voters, and maybe even more so, the nonvoters, let them. More than anything else, lethargy is the reason we are our own worst enemy.
1 Like
I disagree. If you mean rich billionaires are using their influence to get pols to vote in a way that benefits them then sure - I agree. But if you mean that the same group of billionaires that fund right wing think tanks and strategize on behalf of the republican party and their ideals also fund left wing think tanks and strategize for the democrat party and their ideals then nope.
There are enough billionaires for each party to have their own. If your argument was correct their would be no reason for the level of polarization in the US. The puppet masters would simple join forces and create the system they want.
It follows then that if there are differences between the two administrations in terms of their respective vision for the country then there remains a legitimate reason to vote. Whether you vote for twiddle dee or twiddle dum there is a difference however small.
Corruption in politics is so deeply embedded in the US that it may be impossible to root it out. For example, “Lobbyists existed unofficially in this country practically from the birth of the new American government. In 1792, the Virginia veterans of the Continental Army hired William Hull specifically to lobby the newly formed Congress for additional compensation.” https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/lobbying_timeline.php From this humble beginning we now have supreme court justices receiving millions in gifts
Lobbyists are just one of the ways that corruption is present in the US and in other countries. There is also this: “January 21, 2020 will mark a decade since the Supreme Court’s ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission , a controversial decision that reversed century-old campaign finance restrictions and enabled corporations and other outside groups to spend unlimited funds on elections.”
So @Tin-Man I understand your despair about the state of affairs in the US and as a neighbour I worry about how what happens in your country affects mine but we just have to keep on, keeping on to keep our families safe.
1 Like
To get a taste of what it will be like if Trump wins, just take a look back at his first administration. He had real winners in his cabinet, like Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education (pushed for private schools and diverted funds and supplies during the Covid pandemic to private and religious schools). She’s just one example of the type of people Trump would appoint if he wins again, and this time he’s going to make sure anyone he appoints is going to be completely loyal to Trump.
2 Likes
Are you still a 9/11 inside jobber?
This sounds conspicuously like a variation of the “evil overlord” conspiracy theories I have encountered on the internet countless times since it opened up to the public in the 1990-ies. They range from relatively innocent to the batshit insane “lizard people” conspiracies and the absolutely rabid and equally insane antisemitic “the jews are behind it” conspiracy theories. And they all lack one basic ingredient: evidence.
Yes, some people are corrupt. Yes, some people are bastards. Yes, some people just want to fill up their own bank accounts at the expense of the regular Joe and Jane Averages. But most probably, not all of them are corrupt, greedy bastards all the time, in all levels of government, in all districts. What I’m missing from your statement above is evidence and concrete examples. Without examples and evidence, all you have are claims. And I just don’t buy bare claims of this nature that are unsubstantiated. Especially if they look conspicuously like a conspiracy theory.
I’m just expressing my opinion that reforms are needed to rid yourself of the system where the corporations and lobbyists have too much power of the politicians. I’m not making any claims as to who it should, must, or can be. Even if I had concrete suggestions, there is nothing I can do about it from across the Atlantic, not being a US subject in the US. It is up to you USAnians to figure that out. But one way of doing that is to vote for the people you think can do something about it. Or better yet, you can go into politics yourself and start the job in your local city/county/state. Or become an activist. Or both. Only sitting on your ass, whining about it certainly does not help.
Edit: Fixed a couple of missing words.
Note: I’m going on vacation tomorrow, and will probably not frequent this forum until I get back home, in a couple of weeks. If I do, it will be via a phone, which means that long postings, long answers, and well thought out answers are out of the question 
1 Like
I’m basically with Tin on this. Reference (The Irony of Democracy)>
How democratic is American society?� While most American government books address politics from a pluralist perspective (the theory that many groups of people share power in the United States), this book approaches the subject using an elitist perspective (the theory that only a tiny number of people make the decisions that shape our lives). By exposing the irony between elitism and the democratic theory and modern pluralism, this eye-opening book helps readers understand why the U.S. government works as it does.
Our government is anything but democratic. There are indeed democratic elements to it and pluralistic grassroots movements can influence the decision-makers, but to what degree? The golden rule is the only rule that matters in the USA. “He who has the gold makes the rules.” Congress can pass laws but they cannot do research. For that, they rely on independent studies from the tobacco companies, firearms companies, and other multibillion-dollar companies and their agendas. Social movements have influenced the government from the ground up but these influences are few and far between. Look at any social movement that gains momentum and you will find multi-billion dollar funding behind it.
To me it seems not a matter of whether or not we get there, wherever there is, but how we get there and who makes the money.
Who Governs? Elitism, Pluralism, and Tradeoffs
(I lean towards the Elitist view with concessions being made to appease the masses but not to solve actual problems.)
For a quick overview of Eletism and Pluralism… https://courses.lumenlearning.com/atd-monroecc-americangovernment/chapter/who-governs-elitism-pluralism-and-tradeoffs/
1 Like
I’ve got to hand it to the Republicans. They’ve done an absolutely stellar job of convincing the masses that they’re working in their best interests when the exact opposite is true.
2 Likes
Around 20 years ago, Karl Rove labeled educated and rational citizens, as opposed to the people the Republican party was now mobilizing to win elections, the “Reality based community.”
This was the beginnning of that party eventually sinking deep into the bizarre and damaging where positions and policies are concerned, IMHO.
And I don’t believe the Democrats are actually any better. I think they start off better. But with money and power…corruption just seems to naturally follow.
They become the Clintons, the Carters, and just as corrupt as any Republican counterpart.
Or is it just the president’s job to take the heat for bad decisions made behind the scenes? I am unconvinced Biden could blow his own nose without the assistance of an aid. The man is senile. And Trump is a right-wing puppet on a power trip who does not know how to keep his mouth shut. And this is what we have to choose from to represent America? It’s just sad. (I see civil unrest in the future.)
“The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
Yeats…
I’m not saying the Democrats are saints by any means, but at least they somewhat try to do the right thing some of the time.
There isn’t a progressive, liberal party in the U.S. There’s a conservative party (the Democrats) and an ultraconservative party (the Republications).
As long as we have first-past-the-post voting, gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the Electoral College things won’t change.