As very few Americans have experienced health care in developed and civilised nations, it is very difficult to get the average joe and joess to even imagine a world where healthcare is considered a right, not an excuse for piracy by corporation.
I was greeted in many conversations with outright disbelief when I related the French, UK, Australian, NZ and Scandinavian models of National Health. All of which I have a personal experience of, as well as the American…“what coverage do you have?” check before they even treated me…hmmm.
The usual accusations of Communist State, creeping Socialism…and yet very seldom I met someone who realised a healthy population meant a better, more able workforce. A reality that Aneurin Bevan and his cohorts realised way back in the 1930’s and even the Quakers who were very enlightened employers before that.
As long as the US worships the individual dollar over social betterment you are fucked.
Folks in the U.S. have had it pounded into their heads that because the USSR was our enemy that anything anywhere near “communism” is pure evil. Communism and socialism are frequently considered synonymous. Universal healthcare is considered a socialist program, therefore it is, like communism, evil.
The current health industrial machine does nothing to dispel this. Major players in that industry provide financial support to politicians who spew anti-socialist rhetoric. And because education in the U.S. is so abysmal, folks can’t tell the difference between this con and fact.
They conveniently forget that the library they go to, the road they drive on, the football stadium they sit in, the data for their daily weather report, the schools they (likely) attended, the streetlights that help them see at night, the 800,000 miles of public sewer lines that take their shit away, the water that 90% of them have on tap, and so much more are publicly and therefore SOCIALIST.
We, in the U.S. are our own worst enemy.
I’ve had arguments with conservatives about this very subject. They claim that universal healthcare is socialism, but roads, schools, police and fire services, etc., are not. Their arguments to justify this position are just as convoluted and irrational as your typical religious apologist.
In my opinion it comes again to individual versus collective rights. The more you help your community the less you have for yourself. Rather than, the stronger my community becomes through my contribution the stronger we all become. This coupled with the fact that Americans, from a young age, are taught that they live in the best country in the world, regardless of the facts. The worst part of this is that the same forces that are at work in the US are chipping away at our way of life in Canada.
The notion that life is a zero-sum game permeates American society. Any advancement in gay rights, for example, is seen as taking away rights from the rest of us. Giving anything to any other group, be it money, rights, opportunity, etc., means less for them.
…(standing ovation… clapping like a madman… whistling)… AMEN! Preach it! That one simple sentence says it all.
…(cough-cough… trying hard to suppress reflexive laughter)… My apologies. Not laughing at you, GOML. Just that the question caught me off guard. Not your fault. Anyway, since others have already covered (very nicely, I might add) other aspects of this, please allow me to point out the “elephant in the room” most people don’t want to see. Two elephants, I should say. First, while there may have been a time in U.S. history when voting actually did resolve such issues that we are discussing, those simple days of “innocence” became distant memories long, long ago. “Voting” nowadays is simply a means to give the general population the delusion of “control.” Fact is, the “winners” of most elections in this day and age have already been determined before the polls ever even open. Kinda like WWE wrestling, in a way. (My own personal opinion, I should add. Although, I am very eager and willing to have somebody prove me wrong.) Which brings us to elephant number two. Even if the elections ARE (by some miracle) actually fair, it really doesn’t matter which candidate wins. “Why,” you might ask? Well, let’s say (hypothetically, of course, for the sake of argument) there actually IS an honest politician with personal integrity out there who wins an election based on a campaign to fix some of the fuck-ups we currently endure. How much do you honestly believe that individual would accomplish with the forces of opposition he/she would be facing within the MEGA-Political Machine? (Supported by major corporations and a handful of individual billionaires, I might add. And that’s not even counting the UNTOLD amount of OUR tax dollars we throw at them on a DAILY basis.) Simply put, let’s just say that lone Don Quixote might as well be a gnat trying to stop a hurricane from reaching the coastline. The sad reality now is that politics is the place to be for those who want to make millions (or billions) of dollars without having to do any actual work. And the people with that sort of mentality don’t give a good goddamn about common Joe/Jane citizen. But, even for those who cannot be “bought”, there are many other ways to “coax” the boat-rockers to stop rocking the boat. And for those who cannot be threatened or blackmailed… well… “accidents” happen. Such is our “government” now. And THAT is why I cannot help but laugh out loud whenever somebody suggests we “vote out” those who don’t serve us as they should. Sure, there actually are be a few good folks at the local city or county levels of government helping their citizens as their oath of office requires. (Not many, but there are a few.) For the vast majority seeking higher government/political positions, however, it is ALL about personal gain of power and wealth. Period.
I truly wish I could say you are wrong about that, my friend. But unless something incredibly drastic/fortunate happens, I also believe it will eventually come to that.
From your reply, my spider sense detects a hint of disillusionment. Am I correct, or do I need to have my sensors recalibrated?
But taking what you say at face value: Are you indicating there is no point for you USAnians to vote in November? Because, unsuited as they both might be in their own separate ways, it really doesn’t matter which candidate wins, Oaf Orange or Jerry Geriatric(*)? Really? It does not matter?
With all due respect, may I request the political discussion that has emerged in this thread be taken to another thread, please? I started this thread simply to bemoan the woefully decreasing intellect and the severe lack of common knowledge that is spreading like a plague within my country. Basically just wanted to vent a bit and laugh at the absurdity of it all as a means of helping maintain what little sanity I have left. Was hoping others would even chip in with similar encounters they’ve had over the past few years. Had zero intentions of this turning into a political discussion. There are plenty of those scattered about in the different rooms already. This is the “Random FUN” room, remember? And political topics nowadays are not fun in any way, shape, or form. Hope everybody understands. Thank you.
I disagree. Poking fun at politicians and politics is…well…fun. Sometimes randomly so. Granted, some politicians lend more to ridicule and poking fun at than others, and some politicians (and policies) are more random than others. Thus, random fun.
I agree, though awarding the Nobel peace prize to Henry Kissinger, did almost kill political satire stone stead. It is indicative of a free society, that we are able to criticise, and make fun of those in power with impunity.
I reread your OP and it almost sounds like that old adage “My generation rocks. yours sucks!” This has been going on since the beginning of humanity!
My father came to me on my 16th birthday and asked if I noticed his generation complained about our music (Beatles!!), He then said that his father’s generation complained about his music (Big Band!) and the clothes and the haircuts - and he predicted that my generation would do the same. I’ve seen this play out multiple times - and today is no different.
I asked our admin to create this room as a place everyone (unlike in the Hub and Lounge) could chatter about things other than those centered on debate of a/theism.
Discussions often take on lives of their own, (sts). If you notice, it happens in most strings of any length in any room. And we all have diverged, at one time or another, from the OP.
In other words, shit, oops, I mean divergence happens.
Damn… I do believe I just got spanked. Hey, @Cognostic@Old_man_shouts_at_cl! Could one of you please check and see how much (if any) ass I have left? You know how difficult it is for me to look back there myself. Okay, point taken, Cyber. Forgive me, please. I was just having a bad moment yesterday. All is well now.
Yeah, I (grudgingly) have to agree with you on that. And it is indeed a “target rich environment” in today’s governmental system of follies. Might as well find humor where we can, while we can. Since we aren’t allowed to hunt them, might as well laugh at them, I suppose… (shrugging shoulders)…
Howdy, Capri. Thanks for joining the thread. I totally see what you are saying. However, that is not what I was implying. I actually wish it was what I meant to suggest, but what I am talking about is on a more… … well, on a more “fundamental” level. (For lack of a better term.) Fact is, I genuinely admire and enjoy some of the “trends” of our most recent generations. Whenever I go out in public, I LIKE seeing all the different styles of personal grooming and tattoos and piercings and hair colors and so on. I LIKE seeing mixed race couples and same-sex couples being able to freely display their relationships without worry of public ridicule. I LIKE these things because such relationships and such displays of personal identity were practically TABOO in the small Christian-dominated town in the middle of the Bible Belt where I grew up. Now, in that same small town where the KKK once held weekly “meetings” in the local shopping center parking lot, folks who would have quite literally had to fear for their safety/life are now fully free to be who they want to be without any worries of being physically or verbally attacked in public. Personally, I think it is fantastic. And I have to give credit to the last couple of generations for helping make that happen. Sure, there have always been “generation gaps”. Simply goes with the territory of Time Marching On. And, yes, I freely admit there are a few things the “new kids” do that bug the piss out of me. After all, I’m an old fart now, so I have a tradition to carry on from the old farts before me. Anyway, as I said, in regards to my OP, that is not the problem I have.
What I am concerned about is this… At no fault of their own, the last couple of generations (here in the U.S., just to be clear) came up during a time when the “education system” was severely being “dumbed down” to the lowest common denominator. And, quite frankly, it disturbs the shit out of me. I have literally seen vids of COLLEGE students who can’t even answer basic questions like, “How many states do we have?” How many dimes make up a dollar? Who fought in the American Civil War? I have a step-daughter who is almost thirty years old. She graduated high school with an “Advanced Academic” diploma. The girl literally cannot add two 2-digit numbers together without using the calculator on her phone. (Not exaggerating.) THAT is what passes for “Advanced Academic” nowadays. See what I’m saying? It’s not all the new trends or the new music or all the different slang and such that bothers me. It is the blatantly obvious lack of very basic and fundamental knowledge as a whole that causes my concern.
Your Spidey senses are partially right. It’s not disillusionment, though. It’s close to that, but not exactly. Honestly, it is kinda difficult for me to accurately describe/explain it, because I’m really not too sure myself what to call it. Be that as it may, please allow me to explain what I meant by “it does not matter who wins.” Simply put, as far as I am concerned, ALL politicians at that level all bow down to and answer to the same “Masters.” Those Masters being multi-billion dollar mega-corporations and individual billionaire tycoon types. As I mentioned before, this country is being controlled by those entities, with the politicians and government officials in higher offices simply being the puppets whose strings they pull. Therefore, regardless of who “sits on the throne” in the Oval Office, we are STILL at the mercy of those who control that “elected” individual, along with all those high and mighty Congressmen, Senators, and other legislators who share the same building. Again, this is just my personal opinion. More importantly, though, I DO NOT WANT TO BE RIGHT ABOUT THIS. I would absolutely LOVE to be proven totally wrong about it somewhere down the road. Would not hurt my feelings one bit for somebody to be able to tell me, “Ha! You were wrong! See? I told you so!” I would actually be a happy man. As it stands at the moment, however, we can only hold our breath and wait to see how it all plays out. Personally, though, I’m not very optimistic. But, of course, I’m a pessimistic and cynical bastard by nature.
Welll… I think you’re just going to have to accept it. You could always go and start another thread with a more specific interest. Look at it this way. At least the people who did post were talking about things they thought were important and not 'egg nog parties, missing bolts, oil slicks in underpants, or dancing naked under a full moon’s light. I seem to recall quite a few posts floating by in the sewers with nothing more interesting to talk about than how to stuff bananas up one’s butt or how to avoid the flying monkeys on the way to the magical kingdom. Bottom line: Take your medicine like the heartless robot you are. (There I go being all blunt again!)
well, apart from those crusty rust(??) stains…well I HOPE they are rust stains…or are you following the example of the orange oompah loompah and wearing make up back there? Yep all fine. A nicely convex shape with hidden rivets.
And yeh, that was a paddlin’.
Sadly, however, I believe that you are correct in your analysis. There is absolutely no reason why the billionaire class should not pay at least a 45% tax rate. Even with that most of them would increase their wealth (with no effort) by 35% every year on year.
Strict laws about political donations, “loans”, “fundraisers” and gifts should have to be reviewed and reinforced every 5 years.
That kind of regulation and an Anti Corruption Commission in every democracy (we finally got one here at federal level). They were shitting themselves because of the outrageous success and popularity at State Level.
I am cruelling a few Members of Parliament and my Senator here with correspondence detailing where loopholes are left allowing undue influence and the stench of actual corruption to escape.
Okay, point taken, Cyber. Forgive me, please. I was just having a bad moment yesterday. All is well now.
… well, on a more “fundamental” level. (For lack of a better term.) Fact is, I genuinely admire and enjoy some of the “trends” of our most recent generations. Whenever I go out in public, I LIKE seeing all the different styles of personal grooming and tattoos and piercings and hair colors and so on. I LIKE seeing mixed race couples and same-sex couples being able to freely display their relationships without worry of public ridicule. I LIKE these things because such relationships and such displays of personal identity were practically TABOO in the small Christian-dominated town in the middle of the Bible Belt where I grew up. Now, in that same small town where the KKK once held weekly “meetings” in the local shopping center parking lot, folks who would have quite literally had to fear for their safety/life are now fully free to be who they want to be without any worries of being physically or verbally attacked in public. Personally, I think it is fantastic. And I have to give credit to the last couple of generations for helping make that happen. Sure, there have always been “generation gaps”. Simply goes with the territory of Time Marching On. And, yes, I freely admit there are a few things the “new kids” do that bug the piss out of me. After all, I’m an old fart now, so I have a tradition to carry on from the old farts before me. 
Anyway, as I said, in regards to my OP, that is not the problem I have.