Not my position either.
IMO any God who wants me to believe in him will be smart enough to provide evidence which will convince me. I have no idea what that might be, not my problem.
Imo ,to assert that no god would be able to prove himself to you is a pretty arrogant and closed minded thing to say. IE perhaps first have go at defining ‘god’ Then perhaps explain how you know you have considered every possible god.
Don’t fear the unknown, never be afraid to say I don’t know, it’s that arrogance that has driven most the theistic hubris we see on here.
I go with caution and not fear. Caution is assessing and withholding but continuing. Fear makes you run or fight. The brain turns off.
Now - ancient woman looking after young (who seem to be slow at maturing) while man is out looking for fire.
Very aware of environment. Sounds of birds and other animals. Understands what their silence means. Watches the ears on the grazers and teaches young through stories. Sometimes the young get to visually witness the consequences of not understanding the “sounds of nature” - mom gets eaten while they’re in the bushes.
Yeaaaaaa! Oh I love that story! Man is free to chase sexy ladies with rolling pins.
I agree with your point but I would say that fearing the unknown is ok, it is being paralysed by that fear which is harmful. The old saying “feel the fear and do it anyway” is the way to go.
I’m sure we all understand the evolutionary dynamic which turned a legitimate survival instinct into something which cripples people into doing nothing and allows us to create personal demons where none exist. I have heard atheists called ‘brights’. I dislike the arrogance of the term but I do believe that throwing off the restrictions of religious dogma has enabled a surge of human progress and that the movement will continue to grow. Like Hitch, I think religion will always be with us, until we can conquer death and it no longer holds any fear for us, but I hope that, over time, it will become a fringe minority. In the meantime, we must all be committed to helping our fellow humans to overcome the false fears which religion teaches in order to perpetuate its power over men’s minds. We must be courteous and respectful to individuals whilst being clear about the lies and nonsense of religion. We must not copy their arrogance, nor their insults nor their condescending attitude. Rather, we must hold the high ground, keep our temper and be an example of how clear and critical thinking can make us all better human beings.
How did this turned into a sermon? Bless you my children 
That’s quite alright, we’ve certainly had worse sermons on here.
The obvious unknown people fear is death, but I think we can attribute that to our evolved survival instincts.
Death I don’t fear, the idea you can experience anything without a functioning brain is absurd to me. I demonstrably didn’t start experiencing anything until I had a functioning brain that started to store memories and experience emotions. Edit If had is the right word here?
The dying part I’m a little more apprehensive about, for obvious reasons. I try not to let depression get the better of me, and though it sounds trite, it often helps to focus my mind on something anything positive.
What I don’t know definitely can hurt me, that is axiomatic, but worrying about it won’t help.
Think of life as game, that ends with death. You can’t win it, but you can try and enjoy playing it as much as possible.
I agree about helping others, and I think if human morality has a basis, it ought to be to try our best to avoid and prevent any unecessary suffering.
We need no religion or deity for that, and blindly adhering to archaic religious doctrine certainly won’t help.
The argument for an extant deity, that simultaneously possesses limitless power knowledge and benevolence, has always struck me as a contradictio in adjecto fallacy.
Well said. Like you I don’t fear oblivion but dying in pain or losing my faculties or being a burden to others does not fill me with joy. After a lifetime of surprisingly good health, I was diagnosed with leukaemia a year ago. The drugs keep it controlled and apart from the odd relapse, which requires a few days of chemo every couple of months or so, things go on pretty much as normal. I expect to keep on going and having fun for many years but if things change I suspect I would choose a quick and dignified exit over wasting away. We’ll see, or hopefully, we won’t 
Hey, maybe I’m wrong and Jesus will want me for a sunbeam as we used to sing in school.
As to the nature of an omnipotent deity, I have always liked the question, could God create a rock so heavy that he couldn’t lift it? If he can’t, he’s not omnipotent and if he can but can’t lift it, he’s not omnipotent. Ta daaa! It doesn’t mean much but it’s fun and it mocks the very concept of all-powerful.
When I spoke about helping others, I wasn’t really thinking of helping in general, although we most definitely should. I was thinking of helping those trapped in religious thought to open their minds to other possibilities. Not to tell them they are wrong, but to help them to see that the certainty they have been taught to cling to is nothing of the sort. Without genuine provable facts it is little more than wishful thinking.
Actually… putting on a theist hat. (Any theists reading? Here’s an answer)
God is “energy”. The universe and everything in it is some form of energy. This would include me. I could, under this understanding or argument of “god”, argue that indeed “I can lift a rock, but the rock can’t lift itself”…
You are welcome to your approach - and it will be appreciated on here.
I’ll stick to mine. Different communication styles.
Ah but Mr God you have missed the point. It doesn’t matter whether you are energy or not, can you create something too heavy for you to lift? If you cannot create something that heavy, you are not omnipotent. If you can create it and then you are unable to lift it, you are not omnipotent.
Absolutely, it is not for me to dictate to you or anyone.
I suppose it depends upon ones aim. Mocking religious people for our own amusement and that of other atheists, is fun and perfectly valid and, I must say, easy. My aim to debate believers and to try to reach them. To help people see the world without the need for religion. In my case, mockery doesn’t work, because when you make fun of people they automatically resent it and refuse to listen. It sounds overly grand but I honestly see myself as a campaigner and my ultimate goal is to defeat what I see as the evils of religion.
I feel the same way. People need to drop their many religions and get along for no other reason than that we are all human.
In a place far far way, long long ago, Erkle and Merkle are sitting around the fire. They hear rustle in the bushes. Fight or flight response kicks in and they bolt. Now if it’s a false positive and it wasn’t a sabre toothed tiger, no harm done. If it had been a beast, and they had ignored it, they would be dead.
I experience caution mainly when it involves money. When it comes to money I have an impediment in my reach.
I was taught that there are only four basic emotions: Fear, Anger, Sadness and Joy. I think caution is fear with brains.
Below is a link to a printable feeling wheel you might find interesting
Nope. I didn’t - it’s like can god make a taco too hot to eat 
? Now if god is defined as you defined him/it - sure. Yours fits. That’s a classical biblical or other holy book type god.
My definition of god is equals energy.
The rock is god, I am god, so are you… the air and Mars blah blah blah.
Under this definition of god - that puzzler is solved. The rock cannot lift itself (too heavy and is god). I can lift the rock (I also being god). There are a whole lot of different types of theists and god beliefs.
Been there - done that. You’ll have fun here. Besides - people only get what they want too out of conversations.
Oh - my idealism was the other way around.
The stock answer here, or the desperate rationalisation if you prefer, is that it is irrational (how theists love to use logic and science as a soundbite) to expect omnipotence to be able to act against itself.
Note that the rationality of an unevidenced claim for an extant deity with limitless power and knowledge isn’t even questioned. Another facet of religious apologetics is they think they can “build” a case for a deity, where unevidenced claims and irrational arguments are assumed to gain credence when they are added together, even after they’ve been debunked. Like added a string of ten zeros together and coming up with the answer ten.
We even had a theist on here recently who made this exact claim.
Their beliefs presupposes the answer, so they are doomed to bend every fact or argument around that belief.
Like Trump supporters, who believed him when he claimed they could only lose the election if the other side cheated, before a single vote was cast. A poisoning of the well fallacy if ever there was one. So when they lost the other side must have cheated. Then when 52 separate independent courts examined the legal objections, and found no evidence, the judges must be corrupt or incompetent. Even the Republican judges, who made up the majority of the supreme court. The VP must be a traitor if he didn’t stop it, and Republicans who didn’t challenge it must not really be a Republican, all Democrats are presupposed to be cheats anyway, and if yu are among Trump’s core supporters they were all part of a “secret” cabal of cannibalistic paedophiles. One can only marvel at a mind this closed.
Occam’s razor would disavow Trumps lie of course, but it’s silly to expect logic from anyone who presupposes a belief beforehand, as they will always assess facts in a biased post ad hoc fashion.
Note, in these instances the clock is ticking before any objections are labelled biased for “ignoring the evidence”. As we’ve even seen one poster do on here. What’s odd is how people are capable of seeing this biased rationale in the beliefs of others, but not themselves.
Yah … @PaulDavisCooke will soon get to interact with the logical theists that come this way - best to give him a heads up.
Once they get over their most recent failed prophecy.
Edited to add: it may take awhile for some American theists to get here though…
Has this pastor ever read Romans 13?
Which brings me to this…
George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump are dead and stand in front of god.
God asks Bush: “So? What do you believe in?”
Bush answers: “I believe in a free market, a strong America and a United nation.”
God says: “Very good. Why don’t you take a seat to my right.” And Bush takes his seat.
He turns to Obama and asks: “And what do you believe in?”
Obama says: “I believe in democracy, helping the ones who need it and world peace.”
God says: “very nice. Why don’t you take a seat to my left?” Obama sits down.
God turns to Trump and asks: “And what do you believe in?”
Trump replies: “I believe you sit in my chair!”
You’re absolutely right that idiots like the ones you reference can never be reached and it’s pointless to waste time on them. Except, of course to highlight them as nutters. However, there are millions of ordinary believers who can benefit by being encouraged to think seriously about things they have always simply accepted as truth. I have been debating and conversing with people like this for thirty years and it is wonderful when someone finally understands that there is another way to see the world and their religion is a little more complex and significantly darker than the lessons they learned in Sunday school.
Please don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m naive or unable to handle the lunatics and angry theists. I’ve had more than my share over the years and I’m OK matching wits with them when required, The only problem is that when two people shout in argument, the only voice they is their own, so I try not to waste my time with them.
Gotcha 
.
That’s a sound and realistic approach. For myself it took years of “dripping” logic into my theist cult-controlled brain (self-controlled lol)
and years of de-programming (myself).
You never know when you may say something or think of something that clicks with the person you’re engaged with.
