The average person??? Hahahaha - a flicker of optimism in humanity. When it comes to categorizing differences and then denying others based on those differences, our species has a whole history of doing just that…
How’s the height discrimination in China coming along???
How about that foreigner discrimination locally in your area?
The best we can do is legislate a standard of equality. Those government agencies that are “of the people” should be kept to those standards. Private business? Corporations (well unless they need a gov’t grant or “tax break”…then attach the strings for standards to society)? NO it cannot be “legislated” BUT it is protected by law and at least there may be some recourse for folks blatantly discriminated against (sue the fuckers).
As I said, you stick to your nice comfy niche. Me? I deal with discrimination on an ongoing basis, I work with one of the leading law firms in Australia that handles workplace complaints.
Not so much in my 70th year but I revel in the changes we have wrought.
In Aus you can see it in nearly every workplace. One day the US might start leading, South Korea? like Japan it will take a long while.
But hey Cog, you are comfortable in your unconscious discrimination. It will only come home when it really bites you. I would have thought with what I have learnt about your background you wouldn’t be coming up with the kind of apologetics you have spouted about this subject.
I prefer being part of the solution, not being part of the problem.
I didn’t say it wouldn’t be bloody. It will be a fucking mess. It will be exactly what it needs to be. It may even kill us all off as a species. But if it is important, we will make it and it will happen. Not in my life time.
Wonderful… it is happening in your lifetime. It is happening now. It has happened. It is happening less.
We have made slow, step by step progress, and judging from many younger voices, it’s continuing in its positive trend. The internet has been a big contributor in breaking (or allowing passage through) “walls”, and kids are getting to know each other beyond biases that may have prevented it IRL.
If it’s “important” - go make a bloody mess???
Fuck
great advice for the young or stupid…
Yah - feminists, incels, bigots (of all kind), racists, sexists, anti-gays, anti-everything but missionary position, new generations vs the older (millennial vs boomer), short vs tall, wrong religion vs right, pacifists??? I get “dibs” on Smilingbirdfood GONE… edited to add: you have “dibs” on me, after all, single mother raising boys (don’t go too deep though into who I am and if I’m capable - just view it from the surface and statistics)…
This is because the Magisterium only amends doctrine on two standards
It becomes socially unacceptable, such as not letting women speak at Mass (changed at Vatican II)
A claim is undoubtedly disproven.
The exclusion of flat earth came about by the latter. Despite there being a flat earth diagram in the Old Testament, the Magisterium accepts the fact that the Earth is round. It’s not because they always believe science, but rather because it would hurt what little credibility they have if they didn’t. This is how they pick and choose which parts of the Bible are erroneous and which are right.
Yeah, I read all of her books. It’s my understanding that early humans had not developed language. I don’t remember where or when I read that ,so it may be taken as anecdotal or hearsay.
Jean Auel’s idea about sign language make sense. Not convinced about her notion of complex tribal memories. … I simply thought that was a literally device, not necessarily her belief. Same with the graphic sex scenes…
GONE? I’m the Celestial Cockatoo. I am Eternal. I cant go Anywhere…might explain why I don’t get out much…or is that C19…being Eternal is not proof against senility…I’m not surprised old YHWH left so many errors in his book…I told him the insects he made had six legs…the old duffer.
I have personally used all those comments and they are a way of working around the bigotry and discrimination that I was forced into using by the state and its “Anti-discrimination Laws.” I had to hire a black guy but I could not advertise for a black guy. I either hired a black guy or I lost my government funding. I turned down hundreds of qualified white people in order to get a semi-qualified black person that I felt I could train. Okay… I am not saying that there were no qualified black people. There were not always qualified black people when you needed them. (I could always hire two women and pay them less. YOU THINK I’M KIDDING? I’M NOT! )
The points for two women who are classified as a minority are equal (or were equal at the time) to one black man. (A black woman was worth more than a black man.) The government has a point system. So, I hire two white women, pay them less, and I can cover my ass with the government and continue my funding. THAT IS HOW THE REAL WORLD WORKS.
Sorry, I could never hire a deaf person. I did hire an amputee once. The kids we work with stole her leg and would not give it back to her until the police were called out. I think they found it on the roof. She was fired for having sex with one of the 16 year old’s. Damn that woman was worth points!!!
The laws work very differently in Australia. We are concerned with equity and privacy.
We have a raft of “protected attributes” that an employer or fellow employee harm at their legal peril.
These include, sex, sexual orientation, race*, religion, social origin, facial features, family, as well as many other sections to ensure equity in the workplace.
Discriminate on the basis on any one of those and your are in a world of hurt. Yet employers still use the tired old weasel words to get out of treating everyone with fairness and respect.
The last 11 years as an actor I have been working with a large outfit in the Eastern States that fly me all over the place at least one or two weeks a month to take the character of the various dickheads, victims and unwitting perpetrators to educate people as to their rights, responsibilities and penalties.
I have given up on the remote gigs and interstate as my partners health (and indeed my appetite for performing) but still do the metro gigs here in Perth.
I have listened to the same entitled bullshit from soooo many managers, business owners and corporate parasites who seem to find any and every excuse to not do the right thing, then whinge when they are forcibly educated by the courts.
there is no excuse for discrimination on the grounds laid out in our Employment and Fair Work legislation. None. It is all weak minded excuses from pissant, entitled fuckwits.
There is an exception for aboriginality as a means to combat the glaring inequalities in education, opportunity and wealth that the 1st nations combat on a day to day basis. One can advertise for an aboriginal worker and restrict hiring to them if the position is suitable, paid at the award rates ( Awards are a system of minimum reward for most professions). Despite the squeals of outrage from the usual suspects nothing but good has come of that policy.
I don’t blame you. We deaf heads are more organised than you stupid hearies think. We usually only end up taking advantage of the softer-hearted members of staff to do work for us or make fun of the way they talk at the very least.
It really depends on the requirements of the position in question and your responsibility to hire the best person for the job. However I seriously doubt society will suffer dreadfully if the “absolutely bestest” candidate missed out on a position because of whiteness of his skin. Jesus, we are surrounded with white corporate psychopaths in suits everywhere controlling everything and how many think every one of them is doing an excellent job?
The laws that control who you can or can’t hire are not aimed at satisfying the ultimate desires of the corporation, but rather at loftier notions of diversity and opportunity that might be of greater value serving the broader expectations of society.
I have done the hire and fire routine and its one of those rock and a hard place things. There will usually be the one standout, but you need to consider others to make sure you haven’t overlooked the obvious while still giving the front runner a second long hard look just to be sure. And even with a narrow field of equal contenders its still impossible to avoid personal prejudices and discriminations. My experience was that Asian workers were generally more reliable and productive than some white Australians. Not always, but I did not reject anyone on the basis of looks. Funnily enough I did hire an amputee once for our bookshop, no left arm below the elbow, no hand, but her literary knowledge of books and authors was masterful. I encouraged her to use her mechanical forearm which she had an aversion to using. She proved to be a great asset and very popular with customers.
And after that hiring experience, as a deaf head I know I am not a desirable employment choice. I only get angry with those who rudely diss me for it. There are honest grounds for rejection and then there’s being an ignorant rude arsehole. How do these people get jobs hiring others?
Delivering universal unforced fair and equitable employment opportunities is way beyond our current capabilities as a species. We are still too tribal. Laws ensuring diversity might be the only way until we manage to acquire that requisite level of global “niceness and goodness” but by that time we should have also managed to create blissful civilisations in which working to live could be a mere choice rather than an intractable hard reality. Meanwhile its get back to work.
Jeez what a great bloke you are. I am impressed. Write yourself a suitable congratulatory letter of appreciation.
I was hired to work with deaf actors. I had no knowledge of Auslan. Only the script.
Fucking amazing experience. One rehearsal then on stage to a mixed audience of hearing, audibly challenged , profoundly deaf and a Government functionary I shall call “Cog”.
I had little problem with the actors. Expressiveness to the max. Authenticity of emotion. I was just caught up in the performance despite the silent responses to my dialogue, as were 99.95% of the audience who understood the story and the emotions without any more dialogue than I provided.
The worst cunt in the room was the government representative who cornered me after speaking VERY loudly at the other actors. “great job” he said in a loud “confidential” type voice" " Of course I didn’t understand a fucking word apart from you, what was it about? You must be very brave to face that kind of ridicule"
That is why I say “fuck you” to discriminatory morons however they try and dress up their lack of empathy.
I use to babysit a deaf kid. It’s where I learnt sign at around 13. Anyway - never again… those dearies NEVER listen - couldn’t get him to hear a word I was saying!
Hahahahaha …never pissed the kid off though. He was 7 and I knew about the “deaf rage super-strength”
All kidding aside, when I was younger I somehow got myself involved within the deaf community. We had lived in a larger city at the time. Must have been the babysitting skills.
IF you have never raised or been around kids - none of them have any listening skills regardless of “hearing”.
Now - your experience no doubt fits with your time-frame within “the system”. As with anything there’s an evolutionary curve of learning.
Hire new people based on…well, at one time how much access, money, opportunity existed for certain genders or colors to get the “qualifications”? I’ve been hired into positions that I needed some training for once I received the job. I have no idea if I was hired under Canada’s similar employment standards (it was non-govt) BUT I like to think I brought other qualities they were looking for besides my vagina.
As far as pay, most companies have a scale based on education, experience, past pay info, etc that they work out what your current salary offer will be.
Anyway… info:
Ten states in the US have banned affirmative action : California (1996), Texas (1996), Washington (1998), Florida (1999), Michigan (2006), Nebraska (2008), Arizona (2010), New Hampshire (2012), Oklahoma (2012), and Idaho (2020). However, Texas’s ban with Hopwood v. Texas was reversed in 2003 by Grutter v. Bollinger leaving nine states that currently ban the policy.
AS far as education…
Affirmative action is one of the best tools colleges and universities have to promote diversity and ensure that those who are otherwise shut out of the American postsecondary system have a chance to earn a quality degree.
Hmmm those “lily-white institutions” (where you get to join clubs/societies that create bonds with others for society shaping)…
Like, Princeton - so proud of its first black Valedictorian in May 2020
The kid deserves a kudos - the institution deserves a kick in the ass.
I work with severely emotionally disturbed children. You have to be able to hear their screams when they slam their wrists into plate glass windows, throw microwaved boiling water into each others faces, hit one another with baseball bats, beat dogs to death in the back yard, fuck the youngest boy in the bathroom, or make plans to rob a neighbors home… (actually, lip reading might be cool in some situations. But I have gotten real good at reading body language.) I know for a fact when someone is in posession of drugs. The entire energy changes. One person becomes the focus. Everyone starts talking to him in a friendly way. Something is up. Ears are just a big part of the job.
From what I’ve heard, this is essentially the social stigma of today’s hiring process. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for workplace diversity, but demanding to hire a certain demographic is asinine.
The intention behind such policies is to break evil circles, positive feedback-loops that amplify or maintain unwanted conditions or behaviour. Persons of demographic group D have difficulties getting jobs because few persons of group D have jobs, therefore persons of group D are considered less desirable for employment, and do not get the jobs they apply for. Rinse and repeat.
Once wen to job interview where the chairman of job panel (there are always three people interviewing hopefuls) told me they had already decided to whom they would give the job and were only conducting interviews because they had to… But that they would keep my name incase something else came up down the track. Did I complain? Of course not. The quickest way to destroy a career was to make an official complaint.
In 33 years, I worked with three handicapped people. Two were paraplegic and one was profoundly deaf. A lovely young woman in her early twenties. Our manager was very smug because she was given a special set up so she could use the phone.
I learnt some very basic signing. ( I did know the alphabet, but am far too slow) Fortunately, she read lips very well)
I’d like to think that things are far better today because of the IT revolution, but somehow I doubt it. A change technology doesn’t mean any innate changes in human beings.
Then you hire them, they can’t do the jobs. You write them up for their inabilities. They take you to the labor board and try to sue you. You have clearly followed the rules and demonstrate this to the mediator. The decision goes in favor of the company and the person you hired walks away more bitter than before and more convinced that the world is out to get him. IT’S ALL FRIGGING BULLSHIT.
Once at al labor hearing, one string of evidence against me was that I asked a black person what the word “nappy” meant. He was talking to one of the residents and used the word. I did not understand it. So… I asked. His reply… “It’s a black thing.” I kid you not. I just let it go.
A nappy to me is a child’s diaper. Blacks use the word with each other to mean frizzled and in need of a trim, unless they are using it as an insult and then it means “filthy.” Depends on how it is said. I know of very few white people who would know to use the word.
Anyway… I just told the guy I was curious and I shared the response I got. Then… “Yes I did.” (He was a white guy.) I asked him if he knew what the word meant. He changed the topic and asked another question. I was smiling on the inside.
Anyway, I won the case. I won all the cases but for one. And that one we disputed the results, my boss went to the labor board, and the original decision was overturned. We pretty much knew what we were doing when we fired people for cause.
For a long time here, there have been a very unequal male/female distribution of board members in publicly traded companies. So much so that the law was changed, mandating at least 40% of each sex for boards with at least ten members; for smaller boards, the percentwise distribution is different. When the law was first proposed, there was no end to the warnings and complaining and whining from grumpy old (male) farts who felt their hegemonial role was threatened, and who thought having more women on the boards would make the companies “soft”. But guess what? Fifteen years on, the law works, the women have (as expected) proven to be just as competent as the men, and the criticism has largely stopped. And as far as I know, no company have gone bankrupt because there are less conservative and misogynistic old farts on the boards. The EU has also taken an interest in this law, and its bureaucratic gears have started turning. Sometimes, changing the law seems to be the only way to break outdated ways of thinking.
- couldn’t get him to hear a word I was saying!
those “lily-white institutions” (where you get to join clubs/societies that create bonds with others for society shaping)…
