Then you should have said you can’t think of a basis, instead of lying to us by telling us there is no basis. To me it seems you are only here to propagate lies. You’ll probably be removed from the community soon because of stuff like this; that is typically what happens.
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Two days ago, at the beginning of my intervention, I said the following:
That is a non-sequitur. I’ve decided to block you; if you aren’t a troll I’m sorry; but you are using troll tactics.
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This is the answer to my question, and I won’t comment again. I understand that my comments are not welcomed.
Thank you.
Can you not acknowledge that an atheist can be happy because someone else is happy? That accomplishing something good can have just as much meaning for an atheist as with a religious person?
Even animals (such as dogs, but also elephants and many other animals) seem to have a rudimentary sense of right and wrong. They don’t have religion.
Even rats will free a trapped rat and offer the freed rat food.
Do you think that someone stops being a mammal just because they become an atheist?
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I apologize, but it seems that I will be banned shortly. Nevertheless, I have already provided an answer to your question.
My point is that from an atheistic viewpoint, morality is a dogma, whereas religion provides a rational framework for it. I want to clarify that I am not implying that being an atheist makes one immoral.
Anyway… If someone can provide me with a guide to remove my account from Atheist Republic, I will remove my account myself.
Thank you.
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Ok. I’m sorry you and the forum can’t find common ground.
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Your account cannot be removed. However, you are welcome to abandon it.
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I’ll repeat the message on the back of one of my heretic t-shirts, “you don’t need religion to have morals, if you can’t tell right from wrong, then you lack empathy, not religion”.
We(atheists) don’t need a fucking thing from your god in order to have a moral system. It comes from within, not from an imaginary friend.
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Since Quimbag is incapable, or more likely deliberately and obstinately unwilling, of processing even the most basic information, my comment is directed to the greater audience.
There is no “atheist perspective”. Also,
there is a difference between rational and logical.
While it may be deemed rational for a bronze-age goat herder to believe in sky monsters, it was/is not logical. It is entirely absurd to posit that morality separate from superstitious cartoons must be a dogma to itself.
Forced “empathy” is nothing if the sort. It is fearful reaction to a perceived threat.
For anyone unable to understand how morality can be logical outside of religion, I strongly suggest a concerted effort focused on philosophy
and, to a commensurate degree, psychology.
Over many years I have heard the statement “I lost my faith” or “they abandoned their faith” or they “backslided”, etc… I have yet to hear anyone say “I lost my logic” or “I abandoned rationality”…
Lastly, for the greater audience, one must ask themselves if faith is ever a reliable path to the truth.
.
Edit (going to go listen to Elvis’ Suspicious Minds)
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That’s a lie, as I have posted the objective evidence they do, more so than theists. You can’t just ignore that objective evidence and repeat your unevidenced lie.
Another lie, since this was the 5 countries globally with the highest murder rates, and the five countries globally with the highest rates of atheism, and again not one of the second five countries appeared in the list of the first five.
Unevidenced rhetoric, and remember you lied that atheists had no basis for morality, yet now we see the objective evidence exposing this lie, and all you have is lying unevidenced rhetoric.
Straw man fallacy, but yes the fear and ignorance resulting from poverty certainly is a more fertile ground for unevidenced superstition, and this superstition diminishes when poverty and lack of education are removed, but on any level playing field atheists have been shown to be just as moral as theists, you are simply peddling your own and your religion’s blind prejudice. I am an atheist, and after almost 58 years I have never raped nor murdered anyone, and I find the notion of such crimes repugnant, and I don’t need any deity for that either.
Straw man fallacy, and religion certainly has been the cause of murder and misery, that is simply a fact, however it was your unevidenced claim that there was no basis in atheism for morality, I demonstrated objective evidence that refuted it, as you now have had to admit that murder is immoral, and atheists commit less murders per capita globally, and all you have in response is bigoted dishonest rhetoric.
Do you even understand how prejudiced and biased your posts are against the atheists here?
Remember the evidence of the Crusades, where the Christians were commanded by the Pope to retake the holy land? How about the inquisition, or the Holocaust, or the Christian Serbian militia that committed genocide against the Muslim population in Croatia? Your claim is demonstrably false, and all one would need do is read and believe the bible to see the claim is false. Depicting a cruel sadistic mass murdering genocidal deity that constantly endorses and encourages murder war and bloodshed and the sex trafficking and rape of female prisoners.
Care to address your other unevidenced lies about atheism? Apparently not as you skipped those.
Now once more then:
What principle of logic is being violated by atheists showing compassion for others, as you claimed?
Also can you please retract your claim that you know of no atheists who have dedicated their lives to others, as I have given countless examples, or you must accept that you are biased and duplicitous.
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That’s a lie, or you don’t know what dogma is. However it is theists whose delusion of morality is based on dogma. There is no such thing as atheist morality, only subjective morality that belongs to both those who hold unevidenced beliefs in archaic superstition, and those who do not.
That is not a clarification, that is a massive turnaround from your earlier claim that atheists have no rational basis for morality, and of course when challenged to present any principle of logic this violates, you ran away, then came back, and made this risible excuse, one wonders are you asking some preacher or pastor for these woeful apologetics?
You can leave any time you want. or more accurately you can run away when your claims are exposed as irrational bs.
You also made the unevidenced claim that you knew of no atheist who had dedicated their lives to others, yet have failed to address the objective evidence that refutes this bs, quelle surprise. Like th list of atheists who have won the Nobel peace prize, which of course you have ignored.
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Well, the kind of morality that makes you insult me repeatedly without me having insulted you a single time. Now, let’s speak honestly.
You are full of shit. This is what i think. I have been asking for three consecutive days to explain me in a clear manner how atheism justifies certain moral conducts, because i myself can’t formulate a single reason that is not based on a dogmatic premise. That’s all what i did and now i’m going to be banned for making questions that you don’t like.
I also said that empathy can be lost when you remove the logical foundations of morality. This is why I’m asking, what are the logical reasons that support your morality?
And you don’t understand that if you remove the logical foundations of morality, then you could be promoting the idea that empathy might eventually be removed and deemed unnecessary, just like you deemed religion as unnecessary. You know, it’s not the first time it happens in human history. and seeing the kind of answers I’m receiving here, probably not the last time… So I ask again and again… what is the logical rational foundation of your morality?
Zero answers, tons of insults - that’s what defines your morality.
Bye bye…
You said he had no basis to be moral, maybe you want to pretend it was a compliment, but it was not. So that claim is either spectacularly stupid or a lie. Given your posts so far, I can only go 50/50…either way…
Now that is petty ad hominem.
I have been asking for longer than that for you to offer one principle of logic that is violated by an atheist basing their morality on compassion for others, as you claimed, so get on with it or stop this breathtaking hypocrisy.
FYI Atheism is a lack or absence of belief in any deity, it therefore neither justifies or forbids any moral acts, they are simply subjective choices I impose on myself, just as theists choose to cherry pick through archaic superstitions. How many moral actions does your lack of belief in mermaids justify? Why would I need to believe in any deity in order to find the notion of unnecessarily harming others to be morally repugnant? Maybe atheists are just nicer people than theists, if theists need to be told not to rape and murder, and to be commanded to care about others.
Oh look not only is this an argument from personal incredulity fallacy, but you have yet again demonstrated that you don’t know what dogmatic means.
Liar liar pants on fire, if you’re banned it will be for a violation of forum rules, like your sententious preaching.
Those are lies, since you offered them in response to me asking you to justify your claim that there is no rational basis for an atheists basing their morality on compassion for others, and since you were called on your bullshit, you have tried to peddle this lie.
What are the logical foundations for morality? It’s bs you just made up isn’t it?
You mean like torturing people forever, which your death cult promotes as moral?
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Why does subjective morality need to adhere to the principles of logic?
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How does the subjective dogmatic morality of religions adhere to the principles of logic?
Only you claimed morality was irrational, unless it was based on a delusional superstition in imaginary deities. Your dishonesty is as relentless as your irrationality. Also you came here, and insulted atheists in a generic way as soon as your unevidenced superstitious spiel was challenged, so your posts are as dishonest and hypocritical as they have been relentlessly irrational.
I really really hope @CyberLN and @Whitefire13 don’t ban you, so you can’t lie about being banned, and have to flounce away which is what your posts deserve.
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Well, you’re not an atheist off the top of my head. However you could could cite your delusional Christian beliefs, and simply pray for vicarious redemption, and to be saved at the end no matter what as your delusional superstition claims anyone can be. It’s that kind of bullshit wishy washy belief, so why not give it the old college try…
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Ah, yes… Christian “love”. 
Allow me to shed a bit of light on that, if I may… (By the way, I’m once again compelled to clarify my response here is not for Quim. It is primarily for the benefit for those who read but don’t participate.)
As many here already know, it’s only been about six or seven years since I finally broke free from my Christian indoctrination. Moreover, as early as 7 or 8 years old, I was already detecting many contradictions and inconsistencies within the bible and the teachings I received from it. However, being a little kid, I obviously did not have the “intellectual” means of countering those teachings. Thus, the fear of Satan and the threat of hell became firmly imbedded into my young and defenseless psyche. Basically, “Do bad things, go to hell. Question God, go to hell. Condone things God does not like, go to hell. If you do any of the things God does not like, it is Satan controlling you… and you will go to hell.”
Now, with that out of the way, allow me to share some of the things I was taught that God does not like. For starters, the bible God absolutely CONDEMNS any and all fools who do not believe in and worship him. Zero sympathy or forgiveness for those evil heathen bastards. Simply saying the word “atheist” was enough to quiet a room and induce shocked gasps of surprise and apprehension. Next on the list of things God despises is homosexuals. Those poor souls are sadly misguided and most are just intentionally rebelling against God by CHOOSING that lifestyle. Therefore, they deserved to be mocked, shunned, and ridiculed in an effort to show them “the error of their ways” and help lead them back to the Lord’s loving arms… (Oomph!.. gag… 
) And in case anybody is wondering, I am not exaggerating. That was THE general mindset of the community in which I was raised. To not share that mindset meant the risk of being labeled as a “communist” and/or “homo-lover”, and that brought with it exclusion and ridicule from friends AND family.
So, with those things in mind, I know for a FACT that I caused harm (physical, emotional, psychological) to many innocent people over the years as a direct result of the Christian dogma I was taught. But here is the REAL pisser… Most times when I was acting in accordance with what “God wanted me to do”, there was always that little voice in the back of my head telling me, “Dude, this doesn’t seem right.” And then there was always a lingering sense of guilt and remorse. To this day I can think of a couple of incidents in particular I wish I could go back and change. But the religious doctrine I was always taught at the time would most often override the sense of common human decency that was yelling at me from the rational part of my brain. And it’s important to remember I wasn’t even “fully vested” in the whole religious nonsense. Aside from the fear of hell, I was mostly just going-along to get-along. And where I at least felt something was wrong with how we (Christians) were suppose to treat “certain people”, I knew many family and friends who HAPPILY accepted it without any guilt or remorse. Hell, for some it was even a contest of sorts to see who could get the most bragging rights.
Thankfully, I am now no longer hounded by the ever-present apprehension and uncertainty of whether or not I will be judged poorly for befriending and/or defending those of different lifestyles and beliefs. These past 6 or 7 years without the Christian brainwashing cluttering my brain have cleared away all of the confusion that plagued me for most of my life. NOW I am proud of the fact I can be a good person without having to follow the dictates of a malignant ideology, and without the threat of eternal punishment hanging over my head. In general, most individual Christians are fairly benign and “harmless”. Just trying to live their lives in peace and be good people. The way it should be. The problem, however, is when you put them all together as a whole, the ideas and beliefs their faith promotes ends up being an insidious group-think cancer that wants to dominate or destroy any who do not believe as they do. THAT is your “Christian Love.”
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Going back to the O.P.'s point, religion was mandatory in the US military. The military screens out recruits whom are spiritually unfit.
So, religion seems mandatory for war.
This has to be the greatest irony overload so far, claiming that atheists morality must be asserted in a way that is very certain because you think that you are right and that everyone else is wrong, when this very accurately describes theistic morals, not atheistic morals which are not based on dogma or doctrine, as atheism has neither. You have yet to explain what this rational basis for morality is, and given your posts are relentlessly irrational, I suspect like many other religious apologists you are using the word as vapid rhetoric, as this is easier than addressing your relentless use of known logical fallacies throughout this discourse.
Since you have already flounced, we shall never have an answer, though to be honest had you posted here daily for the rest of your life I doubt we’d have had one, as it is clearly nonsense you made up, using the word rational as rhetorical window dressing in the mistaken belief it would lend the bs some gravitas. This is further reinforced by you refusing to offer a single word to explain what if any principle of logic you claim my morality is violating? Part of the basis for my morality is that we try to avoid and where possible prevent all unnecessary human suffering, and to a lesser extent the unnecessary suffering of all sentient animals, if that violates a principle of logic I should love to hear which one and why, but @Quim could offer nothing in defence of the claim…quod erat demonstrandum.
Your view is a theistic subjective one, based on unevidenced and demonstrably irrational rhetoric, and you have not only failed to explain what a “rational foundation for morality” is in the first place, you have also failed to explain how an atheist being moral violates any principle of logic. We can I imagine all see why as well. Again you are making up nonsense, and tacking words like rational and logic onto it purely as rhetoric for effect.
Again what is the rational bases for compassion based on dogma from an unevidenced archaic superstition? Maybe atheists are just generally nicer people, and don’t need to be told that actions that cause unnecessary suffering like rape and murder are wrong? If religious morality is so compassionate, why does it condemn people as an abomination just because they happen to be born gay, or justify torturing people forever when they die, or believe the repugnant idea of vicarious redemption from a blood sacrifice of torturing someone to death, or the utterly indefensible notion that all babies are “born in sin” damned with an invisible supernatural curse, they have done nothing to deserve.
That’s not my notion of morality I must say, but then just read about the deity depicted in the bible.
You are demonstrably wrong.
Obviously because I care about others and their well being, it would cause unnecessary suffering, maybe you just don’t care about anyone else and so you have to be ordered to do this?
Not in the least, I have done so above.
You’re not an atheist for a start, but this would depend what “pursuing maximal pleasure” entailed, it is too vague to make any sense.
What atheistic viewpoint, who decided this and when? My views are my own, they are not derived from any doctrine or dogma as atheism has none. The only “viewpoint” atheists share is a lack of belief in any deity or deities, beyond that there is no “atheistic viewpoint”.
Top 10 Countries with the Highest Murder Rates (per 100k people) in 2017:
El Salvador (61.7)
Honduras (41.0)
Venezuela (49.9)
United States Virgin Islands (49.3 [2012 data])
Jamaica (56.4)
Now lets compare that with the top rates of atheism:
Sweden (46-85%),
Vietnam (81%),
Denmark (43-80%),
Norway (31-72%),
Japan (64-65%).
You just asserted that being religious doesn’t make anyone moral, but rather that morality is relative to circumstances and suffering. You moved the goal posts so far, you’ve scored an own goal.
So religion is just a crutch people in need reach for? Are you sure this is where you want to go? It’s an unevidenced anecdote anyway, but there is plenty of research spanning decades that shows religiosity declines in proportion to education. A lack of proper education is a common factor among the poorest people.
Now you have already flounced, so I will just note that not once did you even attempt to demonstrate any objective evidence to support your claim that atheists have no basis for morality, or that atheists are less moral than theists.
You’re wrong, travel to the middle east and preach your religion at the top of your lungs and you can test your claim.
That’s not true, religions have caused untold suffering as well, though I’d agree that even unevidenced superstitions can provide succour among the poor and uneducated, it’s probably why religions are on the increase in the poorest and least educated societies and on the decline in free societies where education is universal.
Must? Why are murder rates so high in countries that are predominantly theistic then, why have religions fought wars to spread their belief, and persecuted people who don’t share them. the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, the 30 years war etc etc etc.
I have demonstrated objective evidence this is not true, so repeating it is a lie.
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Did anyone mention this is an oxymoron?
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Nope, America has the second highest rate of murder per capita in the world, and also one of the highest rates of religiosity.
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