Ok let me try to be more clear. If the universe had a beginning, it must have a cause.
When I say God, I’m talking about the creator of the universe.
Prove the universe had a beginning.
The universe began about 14 billion years ago.
I agree the universe “as we know it” has a beginning, that what preceded it was most likely and probably it’s cause, but I do not accept the unsupported assumption that the cause was a god or that it involved a state of nothingness, as no such state has ever been witnessed. It is more conceivable that there was a physical state before the big bang that gave rise to it, but again that is mere speculation as is the theist claim to a creator god.
“But the thing that popped into existence came from something else.”
No-one here has made the claim that anything popped out of anything. “Ex nihilo” is a long established and accepted theist concept, but even you don’t accept it. “I did not say the universe popped out of nothing that is illogical.”
YOU are being very clear.
YOU have no evidence. YOU can provide no evidence for your assertion of a “first cause” then the various hypothesis of what caused the Big Bang…or more accurately, the expansion of the universe. However, cosmologists use models and Maths and CERN to get “further” past what our current understanding provides for.
YOU cannot answer what it even means to be outside time/space. You just assert. It means nothing. It is a meaningless assertion.
Everything in the universe was created at some point in time as time itself, as far as we know, began with the expansion of the universe. Pencils are made of graphite just as basic elements are formed in stars. What’s your point? The earth had a beginning when it was a ball of dust and gas and another beginning when its very atoms were formed and another beginning at Planck Time. WTF are you on about?
You mean creation creation ex nihilo? You have to be clear what you are talking about. You are just babbling. You no more know about anything beyond Planck time than do the cosmologists. YOUR ASSERTION IS INANELY MORONIC. Demonstrate the existence of anything beyond what is currently known about our universe and go collect your Nobel Prize. Why in the fuck are you wasting your time in an Atheist forum when you are quite obviously one of the greatest cosmologists in the world today?
DWEEB!
God is a unique agent with the potential to create and bring things into existence through His will and power. Therefore, it is not the case of something coming from nothing. God’s will and power were the causal conditions to bring the universe into existence. we cannot have the case of a created thing, like the universe, being created by another created thing in an unlimited series going back witch is the infinite regression. We wouldn’t have this universe in the first place. So their must be an uncaused cause who created this universe.
If the universe had a beginning? WHAT IN THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? We have already told you the universe began from a singularity that expanded. Inflation theory is an attempt to explain that expansion. Scientists are working on it. WHAT IN THE FUCK IS YOUR DISFUNCTION???
If you assert the singularity had a cause, you need to demonstrate that cause and rule out eternal. You certainly can not do either. Greater minds than yours have failed. You can not, in any way, know or demonstrate anything beyond Planck time… HOW IS THIS NOT FUCKING SELF EVIDENT?
YOU also insist on using “your reasoning”… hahahaha. That’s why the scientific method works so well - it removes human “reasoning” because it can be flawed, mistaken, biased, tricked, limited…
The earth was “flat” based on reasoning. The sun was the god, based on reasoning. Superstitious rituals brought rain and sacrifice brought victory, based on human reasoning…
Nope. I do not accept your assertion. There is no evidence for any of your claims, unless you’ve got it hidden away.
Fairy Godmother’s will and power were the causal conditions to bring the universe into existence.
See,
I can make an assertion too!
“God is a unique agent with the potential to create and bring things into existence through His will and power…”
And now you have moved into pure theology, which requires no rational explanation, evidence or proof and requires only obliging faith. Can anything remain to be discussed?
But then I would ask you what is a fairy godmother? What is it’s attributes?
Smiling bird food …
A god he “knows” SO powerful and wise and yet cannot be “found” or “evidenced” or even help his believer describe the “outside time/space” …
Creator of everything - creating a universe and an earth that will kill us in a second if given the chance…
So you believe that the universe will come to an end? That means it had a begining.
I’m here just to have a dialogue with atheists.
An end in the sense it will no longer “be” as we know it. Just as in the beginning, it wasn’t as we “know” it to be now. For all we know, this is a cycle of the universe.
That is incorrect. I shall correct your statement.
This known universe began to expand from a singularity 14 billion years ago.
What was the reason for the expansion and what was the state of the singularity before the expasion WE DO NOT KNOW.
Jot necessarily. One hypothesis is that thing are cyclical.
Me neither .However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not so. I think claiming everything must have a cause is opening the way for first cause , intelligent design, and the watchmaker’s arguments for the existence if god(s)
I refer to the William Payley’s watchmaker’s analogy and the criticisms of that argument .
Below one of three from David Hume:
"His first objection is that we have no experience of world-making. Hume highlighted the fact that everything we claim to know the cause of, we have derived the inductions from previous experiences of similar objects being created or seen the object itself being created ourselves. For example, with a watch, we know it has to be created by a watch-maker because we can observe it being made and compare it to the making of other similar watches or objects to deduce they have alike causes in their creation. However, he argues that we have no experience of the universe’s creation or any other universe’s creations to compare our own universe to and never will; therefore, it would be illogical to infer that our universe has been created by an intelligent designer in the same way that a watch has.[ citation needed ]
I’m a weak philosopher and don’t know if Hume is right or not.I’m left in the position of asserting that god cannot be argued into or out of existence. That so far, no one has managed to actually prove any of the arguments for the existence of god.
I don’t know if you meant to go there, but I’m think that’s where your little friend was heading .
Apologies to all concerned if I have misunderstood.