Buddhism - a religion for atheists

[Whitefire13]

@rat_spit

like to hang on to the romaticism that through out all of the suffering and searching the Buddha finally got it right.

Oh god ratty- you traded in one man, Jesus (if I grant he even existed) for another man.

This man, Buddha, labelled life as suffering. WTF? AND pronounced “right ways”… again WTF?

NOBODY gets it “right”. It’s just life. That’s it. YOUR perception of events and how you label them and what you choose to draw from the experience IS UP TO YOU - no one else! So this guy, Buddha, labeled shit suffering - just his opinion running through his brain and his perception of shit happening …nature happening…LIFE happening.

I’ve conversed extensively with the Buddha.

This makes me sad for you. MY emotions - I can feel what I want for someone else’s experience. BTW, if you don’t like that I’ve labelled your experience as “sad” then how can you like the same labelling from your Buddha?

Anyway I’ll let you know why … because Christians have come on here touting their conversations with Christ … and the bible records men’s conversations with god and angels and donkeys. Some have huge conversations with the dead and demons and YOU fuckin’ name any INVISIBLE make-belief character - and somebody somewhere out “there” has chatted them up - and “they” talk back!

What you are experiencing is nothing new, or special to humans. YOU may have labelled it as such, BUT it’s part of our species and has fucked up people for a long time and fucks up those that “believe” them.

[Sheldon]

@Whitefire13

What I find particularly ironic is that several other posters have painstakingly pointed out that they have used meditation, and that its benefit are not derived solely from, or dependant on, Buddhism or the teachings of Buddha. Of course with all the fur flying from his needless attacks, it’s facts such as these that are lost in his BS.

I have meditated for years, since my early 20’s when took up Aikido, a martial art. Though I was forced to give up the training years ago because it had started to exacerbate chronic back pain, I still find the meditation a very useful technique to combat stress, and promote mental health and well-being.

As I said many posts ago, and it was of course ignored, nothing woo woo is needed to understand why practising meditation, and focusing your mind on one thing, in Aikido this was the breathing itself, helps you to lower your heart rate and promote relaxation, which of course can help combat stress and anxiety, and of course all the resulting health benefits that implies.

Ratty seems to be mesmerised by the mysticism of fancy sounding names, and outlandish claims, but most of these above and beyond what I have described, are unevidenced woo woo. I’m no more convinced now than I was at the start, why would I be.

[Whitefire13]

@Sheldon

, I still find the meditation a very useful technique to combat stress, and promote mental health and well-being.

My middle kid uses it quite regularly.

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

On the other hand, what is that like?

I deal with your type all day long… Level 13 -14 Psychiatric care, lock-down facility. This is a restrictive environment for children who have been removed from their homes due to issues of severe emotional disturbance, psychotic episodes, suicide attempts, and more. (Okay, I don’t work there any more.) I am a university counselor at an international business school. But I am completely capable of dealing with issues like yours. I work with Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Shamanism from Korea and China, and Christian fucktards all day long. I am a real un-empathetic asshole. A shit or get off the pot sort of counselor. It comes from working with drug addicts, alcoholics, murderers, child molesters, shoplifters, and other highly manipulative individuals. The sorts of clients I cut my teeth on ate therapists for breakfast. LOL - And then they meet me… Ahhhh the stories I can tell.

[Sheldon]

@Cognostic

I think that is what’s metaphorically called “laying down the gauntlet”.

Also, I am a little impressed by that I must say. I find dealing with them one at a time in the detached environment of an anonymous internet account slightly wearing.

[Cognostic]

They are all “slightly wearing” That’s exactly why you call them on their bullshit. It’s amazing the latitude you have with an incarcerated population. What are they gonna do, complain that you hurt their feelings? (Yea, okay, I did the family counseling stuff as well and allowed everyone to emote all over the place while challenging them gently. But face it. If you are going to make a change in your life, STOP FUCKING ABOUT AND DO IT NOW. LOL

“Life is real, only then, when I am.”
G.I. Gurdjieff.

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

@rat_spit

The Buddha was qualified to teach suffering and the end of suffering. That is why you should lend an ear. But, you have already dismissed it, so this is likely falling on deaf ears.

Qualified how exactly, what independent authority objectively validated these qualifications? Was his work peer reviewed, if so then offer a citation more robust than the gushing praise of his followers, as adherents of all religions make these exact same appeal to authority fallacies that you made in your original post.

I’m not lying. Here is the exact moment where you asked if his work was peer reviewed.

You can call me a liar, Sheldon - but at least unlike you, I am not intellectually dishonest.

The fact that you continually demand “objective evidence” for a very personal experience is disturbing and off the mark.

And for the record: dear Nyar - I am not trolling. I am not making stuff up to run a smear campaign.

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

When presenting an argument the urge to run away, out of frustration at being confronted with a rational refutation, should give reasonable rational people some pause.

Rational? Really. I realize that we’re debating, however when one party insists that another party’s arguments are phallacious - but refuses to repeat the reason why - instead belabouring the other party to dig through the posts (as if any one gives a rats ass what your argument is) - that is the hallmark of someone who is out to dismiss and isn’t really interested in debating; so much as he is interested in demeaning and feeling intellectually superior.

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

@rat_spit

The Buddha was qualified to teach suffering and the end of suffering. That is why you should lend an ear. But, you have already dismissed it, so this is likely falling on deaf ears.

Qualified how exactly, what independent authority objectively validated these qualifications? Was his work peer reviewed, if so then offer a citation more robust than the gushing praise of his followers, as adherents of all religions make these exact same appeal to authority fallacies that you made in your original post.

Not only did you demand peer reviewed journals to validate the findings of the Buddha - which in and of itself is insulting from the start (eg. We’re talking about an event which happened around 500 BC).

Not only that; you lied about ever saying it and made me look like a troll.

You believe you’re here for the sake of debate. I believe you’re here for the sake of intellectual dick sucking.

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

You seem to want to tell me how I will respond now as well, whilst ignoring my posts. I’m not sure what reaction you expect to unevidenced claims, but you must do as you are minded to, as will I.

Of course my claims are there for anyone to see.

1. There are sense faculties
2. There are sense objects
3. There is sense consciousness

To what degree, Sheldon - do you require evidence for these claims and please point out the phallacy of these claims (just as you have maintained this whole time).

I find it wholly ridiculous and insulting to have to back up these claims with “objective” evidence.

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

Your analogy compared an accepted mathematical theorem, with your unevidenced woo woo claims, for your Buddhist religion. I think enough people have pointed out now that this was a ludicrous and irrational false equivalence fallacy. Blaming me for pointing it out is as absurd an example of shooting the messenger as one can imagine.

Woo woo?
Again.

1. There ARE sense objects
2. There ARE sense faculties
3. There IS sense consciousness

Where’s the woo exactly?

[rat_spit]

@Sheldon

And please, your anger and frustration are your own doing, and not deliberately provoked by me, that’s an absurdly silly claim. Why do theists think they can come here and peddle their superstitious wares with impunity, then cry foul when somebody points out they’re offering naught but irrational assumptions?

For the record, I do believe in a Supreme Being, however the state of “the cessation of perception and feeling” has nothing to do with theism. The Buddha did not teach the existence of a Creator.

[rat_spit]

@Whitefire13

Anyway I’ll let you know why … because Christians have come on here touting their conversations with Christ … and the bible records men’s conversations with god and angels and donkeys. Some have huge conversations with the dead and demons and YOU fuckin’ name any INVISIBLE make-belief character - and somebody somewhere out “there” has chatted them up - and “they” talk back!

Oh. I’m fucked in the head. Don’t reserve any doubts about that. I’ve talked to Isaac Newton, Einstein, Ferggie from the Black Eyed Peas.

I talk to everyone and anyone who happens to make an impression on me. All I need is a sound bite or enough historical reference and the EvilOne does the rest.

That said, rest assured - you will probably never find a more cogent schizoaffective than you will with me. I owe what little sanity I have to my unraveling of the illness (ie. there is ONE voice masquerading as ten thousand others).

[Whitefire13]

For myself, pretty much ignorant of Buddhism

@rat_spit

• There ARE sense objects
• There ARE sense faculties
• There IS sense consciousness

I still have a hard time understanding what this is suppose to communicate. I’m being sincere, not sarcastic.
For myself, I read “sense” and think sight, sound, touch, taste, etc then there is the sense of balance and time… but at least the main ones.

When you write “sense objects” I don’t get it.

Now, “sense faculties”, fine (eye, ear, skin

• being basic and general)

And “sense consciousness” / my guess is how your mind perceives the information and gives the experience meaning.

Maybe the objects are what is “out” in reality (baking bread ) - senses (ones that work) smell, feel, taste the bread - the brain/mind likes the experience or is disappointed in the bread based on past taste experience or expectation… I don’t know

Seems like an odd way of saying we interact with our world.

[rat_spit]

Hmm I didn’t realize you were an asshole. I guess I’m just seeing that for the first time.

Can you cure my schizophrenia? I believe it’s a childhood trauma that has caused a mental block in my memory. And my only way of dealing with reality is to feel like I’m not alone. The voice provides the company, but is even more denigrating that Sheldon.

Help? Kidding. I don’t give a fuck. I enjoy the company.

[rat_spit]

Sense objects include - sights, smells, tastes, odours, tactile objects, and (the dreaded sixth sense) ideas or “truth“.

The assertion is that these objects exist independently to some degree.

Ie. they are external to us.

The rest of your post is essentially accurate to what I’m proposing.

[Whitefire13]

@rat_spit

Sense objects include - sights, smells, tastes, odours, tactile objects, and (the dreaded sixth sense) ideas or “truth“.

Eg - so the bread is a sense object?

What is the sixth sense? I’m aware of the sense of balance and time…

How are ideas or truths “a sense object”? They offer nothing to the faculties.

[Sheldon]

@rat_spit

I’m not lying. Here is the exact moment where you asked if his work was peer reviewed.

I never denied this, what I denied was your embellished lie that I claimed it needed to be in peer reviewed scientific journals. Also the context where I asked about peer review as one example, which you misrepresented.

@rat_spit

You can call me a liar, Sheldon - but at least unlike you, I am not intellectually dishonest

When I said you lied I offered evidence, as I’ve done here again. You’re simply resorting to childish ad hominem again, grow up.

@rat_spit

The fact that you continually demand “objective evidence” for a very personal experience is disturbing and off the mark.

No it really isn’t, and after you accusing me of intellectual dishonesty that’s pretty hilarious.

@rat_spit

And for the record: dear Nyar - I am not trolling. I am not making stuff up to run a smear campaign.

Er, you just did precisely that by using pure ad hominem, calling me intellectually dishonest?

[Sheldon]

@rat_spit

I realize that we’re debating, however when one party insists that another party’s arguments are phallacious - but refuses to repeat the reason why - instead belabouring the other party to dig through the posts (as if any one gives a rats ass what your argument is)

I have explained each and every accusation of your posts being fallacious. So this is another lie.

@rat_spit

(as if any one gives a rats ass what your argument is) -

that is the hallmark of someone who is out to dismiss and isn’t really interested in debating;

Dear oh dear…do you really not see it?

[Sheldon]

@rat_spit

Not only did you demand peer reviewed journals to validate the findings of the Buddha

I never demanded anything, and I never mentioned peer reviewed journals, this a lie you’ve used to distort and misrepresent what I said.

You used an appeal to authority fallacy, citing Buddha as a sufficient authority on his own teachings, but offered no objective evidence to support the claim. Then I pointed this out, and asked if his qualifications had been objectively verified, and AS ONE EXAMPLE asked if his work was peer reviewed? I made NO MENTION OF SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS. So you lied, when you misrepresented my post, as you keep angrily doing now, despite multiple posters pointing out your error, one of whom is a moderator who ASKED you how that was not trolling.

It’s pretty obvious you have lost the plot here, and have something of a chip on your shoulder about me, so far I’ve been pretty patient with your childish name calling, and disingenuous misrepresentations, but my patience has its limits.

CALM DOWN

@rat_spit

Not only that; you lied about ever saying it and made me look like a troll.

No I didn’t lie, and you are making yourself look like a troll, no one can do that for you. It wasn’t even me who pointed it out, it was a moderator of this site. Again if anyone wants to confirm I never mentioned peer reviewed scientific journals, or demanded you produce them, they can go immediately to my post #70, and see it for themselves. As I already pointed out, it takes literally seconds to jump to that post.

@rat_spit

You believe you’re here for the sake of debate. I believe you’re here for the sake of intellectual dick sucking.

Definitely no trolling there, I strongly urge you to remove that last childish outburst from your post. Get a grip man ffs, this a debate forum, and you are having a childish tantrum because someone dared to disagree with your woo woo claims.

FWIW Here is my original response where I mentioned peer review, quoted verbatim, to show unequivocally I never mentioned peer reviewed journals, scientific or otherwise…

@rat_spit

The Buddha was qualified to teach suffering and the end of suffering. That is why you should lend an ear. But, you have already dismissed it, so this is likely falling on deaf ears.

Sheldon. Qualified how exactly, what independent authority objectively validated these qualifications? Was his work peer reviewed, if so then offer a citation more robust than the gushing praise of his followers, as adherents of all religions make these exact same appeal to authority fallacies that you made in your original post.

Anyone who wants to read the entire post can go to #70 in this thread. Sadly when rat loses it, which he usually does when his superstitious wares are subjected to proper scrutiny, these angry disjointed rants where he focuses down on one small aspect of the debate and uses it to play the victim is all too familiar. As are the constant stream of ad hominem abuse he then uses.