Before the religions what the people are doing?

Debate Room
24

What an arrogant claim. I think Christians call that ‘hubris’

It’s my understanding that god will enter the open heart (mind) That’s the claim made by many believers… Muslims are very fond of it. I never found it to be true.

I parted company with Catholic church when I was 20. I am now 73. My reason was because of some of the more fatuous dogma, ranging from the infallibility of the pope, to the virgin birth to the problem of evil.

BUT, I still believed in God and still wanted to believe. I went searching. My search included people like you, who claimed (falsely) that they could reveal god to me. I studied other religions as well as mystical studies and practices claiming to reveal god***. All I found were more questions. After around 20 years, I realised that I simply no longer believed in any of it. That all religious beliefs are cut from the same cloth. That of blind faith and unsupported claims.

*** EG Judaism and the Cabbala, Islam and Sufis. Hinduism and Kriya Yoga, and of course Zen. I even once solved a zed koan.

3 Likes
25

That is your opinion.

That seems like gibberish.

4 Likes
26

HUH??? Is this complete bobbly gook or is there a point in there someplace?

WTF??? So this God thing made the universe, “Not Ready?” Man had to “wait to be ready for God?” WTF kind of a story is this??? And now we are off to woooo woooo land? Holy Shit, this stinks from beginning to end…

HINT: Don’t do drugs. They are bad for your posts.

1 Like
27

Complete universal non reality cannot then produce reality. By 'Nothing ’ I don’t mean empty space, or a black empty canvas, not even that. Zero literally Nothing. If you say its possible for anything to come from nothing you are intellectually dishonest.

There was always something (some ONE) whether you believe in God or not. This is the slightest nudge in that direction I think. Reality is eternal, do whatever you want with that information. Deny it, (if you do you are a liar) accept it but still dont believe in God, that is ok life will go on

1 Like
29

That is a claim, and an unfalsifiable one at that. Nobody knows if that is true. Nor is there any way of proving or disproving it so far as I’m aware. Resorting to an ad hominem attack rather than a reasoned response does not make your claim true.

Yet another unsupported claim and another ad hominem instead of reason. Not having a good day are you.

By “obvious”, am I to understand you area alluding to the notion of intelligent design? The argument has been around for over 2000 years. The first recorded use of which I’m aware was from Aristotle. It was wrong then and the passage of time has not made it less wrong.

There is nothing of which I’m aware which allows a conclusion of “therefore god” .

Are you a troll? You sound a lot like one. I mean, attacking people for disagreeing with you?

1 Like
30

How do you know that?

2 Likes
31

I believe you are being disingenuous by asking that and if not and you really believe that something can come from complete non reality then this conversation is way above your pay grade. I’m not going to bicker back and forth with liars

1 Like
32

Hmmmm - “liars” is harsh, don’t you think.
You say YOU KNOW something - “How do you know…” is a question

Asserting something YOU DO NOT KNOW is the lie.

A more honest answer
Is “I can’t evidence that or I don’t know” -
Because YOU don’t “know”
…

For all you “know” a “god” or “whatever” could have “pushed through” and DIED and we are
physical remains…

All we humans can do is observe - make observations from observable EVIDENCE - not take a “guess” and try to enforce it as “the only answer”…

2 Likes
33

How exactly does that unevidenced gibberish address my post you quoted before typing it?

You claimed:

Why would I presuppose the existence of something you can’t demonstrate any objective evidence for?

It’s a bit rich to invent a claim I’ve never made, and then accuse me of intellectual dishonesty for making it.

However, since you admit it’s intellectually dishonest to make claims one cannot objectively evidence, let’s see your evidence that something can’t come from nothing? Where did you get nothing from to test this postulate? How did you store nothing exactly?

You’re making an argument for a first cause, it wouldn’t evidence any deity even were it rational, and it is not. Since disbelieving in a deity no more requires a contrary explanation for the origins of the universe than disbelieving Harry Potter did it.

What you’re doing is using a known common logical fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam, in order to reverse the burden of proof.

Try again.

Oh really, I can’t see anything about you receiving the Nobel prize for physics online? Care to evidence this claim you are repeating endlessly? I’m guessing not.

Though of course as you admit, this doesn’t remotely evidence any deity.

That’s not information, it is unevidenced rhetoric, and I will do what I always do with such vapid rhetoric, I’ll reject and disbelieve it.

I don’t need to deny it in order to disbelieve it. We’ve had many many religious apologists trot out these argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacies on here, it seems you don’t understand this makes your claim irrational **by definition. **

I don’t accept it as you haven’t attempted to demonstrate any objective evidence for your claim, I don’t accept or believe in any deity for the same reason. Neither disbelief requires I make a contrary claim, this simple epistemological fact seems lost on you.

I suggest you look up argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and then common logical fallacies, and then try and understand that nothing can be asserted as rational if it contains a known logical fallacy, and it would therefore be irrational by definition.

2 Likes
34

Nyarl didn’t make any claim, he asked you to evidence your claim.

Is English your first language? Only you seem way out of your depth with some pretty basic sentences here.

3 Likes
35

Well, we are all seeking God, that’s what we are here for, we are waiting for someone to come along and give us undeniable evidence of God’s existence.

Nobody has yet, nobody has provided demonstrative evidence anywhere, in the whole of human history.

Many have claimed to have evidence, but the vehicle in which it arrives is often greatly flawed, whenever you tell the driver his vehicle has no wheels, he just dismisses you and continues pretending that he is driving, sat in a cardboard box with a dinner plate in his hands.

Even if God were to suddenly be found one day, which is seemingly unlikely, whether or not we choose to worship him, is another matter, for the majority of God’s that mankind has created so far, have been immoral beings, who are not deserving of worship.

2 Likes
36

So where did this God come from?

You say he was always there, (without evidence) if that’s the case, where did he start, because if he exists, he must have come from somewhere, did he spring forth out of ‘nothing’?

2 Likes
37

Says the man child who deletes his own posts on a regular basis.

In the time I’ve been here, I’ve not once seen a single Atheist poster delete their own comment, I doubt the honesty of any Atheist in this forum is in question here.

Especially seeing as Atheists are about what’s proven to be true, rather than being gullible to nonsense.

1 Like
38

I’m sorry to interrupt BUT I’m going to tweek this a little… hehehehe

Atheists are people who disbelieve god/s.

Now PEOPLE in this category may do this through various means - not all are true or logical.

AND PEOPLE can be gullible…so can an atheist. An “atheist” can believe other things outside “god” that are not true.

1 Like
39

Beat me to it. Nor am I comfy with

Science isn’t about truth claims. Rather, what can be empirically demonstrated and what cannot.

Unlike dogmatic personal superstitions, there are no closed questions in science of which I’m aware…not even death itself as people freeze their heads and scientists speak of extending human life indefinitely.

1 Like
40

I conclude, I worded that poorly, and agree with the amendments made :see_no_evil:

Also, apologies for the ad hominem attack, saying ‘man child’ was not conjucive to a rational debate.

2 Likes
41

AWWWWW FUCK I must be doing something wrong then!!!

1 Like
42

Many of the great advancements in humanity came when someone went against the prevailing religious oppression. Did you know that in the dark ages, physicians were loathe to cut inside a torso lest they discover a man had 12 full pairs of ribs, and one was not missing as described in the bible?

Religion inhibits the advancement of humanity, both socially and scientifically.

3 Likes
43

I wanna see this dweeb dying of the common cold, a scratch that gets infected or a frigging tooth that turns gangrenous. Materialistic world view retards progress MY ASS!.

3 Likes
44

Oh hell, given the context I’m sure we can let that one slide, given that particular poster has so often posted ignorant bigotry.

He showed no inclination towards honest debate in any of the posts I read.

2 Likes