Atheists & Pagans Mutual Goal

Not really I’m no fan of the tango man ie trump and I did also put Margaret thatcher on the list, but it is biased against the left slightly should of added George w Bush

I think it does, to him. Just as fighting among themselves has always made sense to believers.

Imo fighting Abrahamic oppression may be a sub goal for some, but it’s as much a symptom as an innate cause. The patriarchy on which they are based seems to have existed long before Abraham et al.

The point I think, is that bad leaders, and bad politicians, should be judged on their own merits, and not on which side of the political spectrum they claim to be representing.

I admire certain politicians for both what they think, and who they are, but those are often separate things, and I can admire one without the other. I mean to say I can admire someone’s intellectual ability and their struggle to be ethical, without necessarily agreeing with everything they say or believe.

I recognise they’re evolved apes, just like the rest of us. So I try not to put them on a pedestal, and instead try to judge how good they are at the job I am voting them to do, rather than my own subjective standards of morality and ethics.

Though of course there are limits.

I despise bigotry and racism, but I hold a particular contempt for people, who exploit such base prejudices and fears in the populace, in a self serving and opportunistic way.

Fallibility I expect, I’d be a hypocrite to expect anything else, but I still expect people to be accountable, and hold themselves accountable, and to at least strive to serve the people they claim to represent while in public office, to the best of their ability.

I don’t pre judge someone, or at least try not to, because their politics differ own.
It may not always seem that way, as @mr.macabre can probably atest, but I admire him and the way he’s struggled against depression, and chronic pain, both of which I can empathise with. I will however scrutinise claims, from all posters for objective evidence, as I expect them to do to my posts.

Sorry for the long post, but I’ve had a small drink, and have been thinking excessively. :sunglasses:

Hopefully it makes some sense and doesn’t read like a sententious sermon, as I hate that.

I have learned a great deal from this forum, and love the way it’s moderated in a mature way, treating everyone as adults.

So kudos to Cyber, Nyarlathotep, and now David and White.

Anyway that’s enough ass kissing from me…:grin::grin::+1:


@The_Towelie_ban There was a movie on Margaret Thatcher, I believe. Have you seen it?

I’ve heard that it’s a good film, but to be honest I haven’t seen it yet.

Ah, yes. Music to my ears. Fits both politicians that deserve nothing but contempt, as well as religious leaders of the greedy kind.

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Hence my own claim that “Aussies tend to view politicians with a healthy contempt”. It’s my opinion that politics as a profession is amoral. That few if any professional politicians can be trusted.

I was actually kind of stunned when I realised that large numbers of Americans really seem to believe what politicians say during election campaigns. A couple I can remember " Yes we can". Meaningless rhetoric. Obama said the first thing he would do was close Guantanamo Bay prison. I find it hard to believe that he was so naive and so ill informed as to not know that just wasn’t gonna happen.

As an outsider, it’s my opinion that Obama was an unremarkable president. His great achievement was getting elected whilst black.

I think I’m probably less trusting in of ‘nice, decent blokes’ who get elected. With arseholes you know what you’re getting, more or less…

In my part of the world, there is a clear tendency of politicians coming from political hatcheries run by the political parties. And “broilers” coming from these political factories are a common talking point both in the media and over lunch at work.

I don’t know about that. There must have been something more that appealed to the voters. In any case, Obama receiving the Nobel peace prize was an embarrassment (to this day I cannot understand why; there surely must have been better candidates). I was gobsmacked when I heard the news, and the wife and I just looked at each other and said “this has to be satire”.

Yes, but do you really want the arseholes in charge?

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It’s the reason most politicians pose as pious Christians, to balance the image. I recently had cause to re-watch an old vid of Trump explaining the Bible was his favourite book but declining to name his favourite Bible verse because it was a “personal” thing. The most blatant recorded example of using on the wing dishonesty to immediately cover an evident lie.
After a lifetime of witnessing end on end political disappointments, I don’t trust any politician, of any stripe, at all, ever, I am forced to either ruefully tolerate or condemn them.

Yup :+1:

At times I am also appreciative that they didn’t make something worse. That’s about as good as it gets.

Oh… and “they’re good for comedians”.

As also was Greta Thunberg, for winning the Time Magazine “Person of the Year”, simply for shouting “how dare you” at the UN. She has not contributed one idea to combat climate change. Not one!

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Totally different criteria. Nobody can deny that Greta Thunberg gives the anthropogenic climate change cause an outward face. Besides, Greta Thunberg doesn’t claim to contribute original ideas (after all, how could she – being only 18 years old?). What she does is to read scientific articles and expert opinions, and disseminate these in her own way. A sort of combined science and expert opinion communicator and climate lobbyist that have been speaking at “all” the most important international political and decision making fora, as well as at scientific conferences. And she started doing that when only 16 years old. That’s quite an impressive achievement, whether you like her style or not.

All she has been doing is yelling and screaming, scolding the world leaders, as if she is their mother. Why don’t she actually do something, for once, in her own , instead of doing interviews and holding public rallies. Actions speak louder than words.

I don’t know what kind of news sources or media outlets you are following, but I think you are misrepresenting Ms. Thunbergs work and activism. Below, you will find a video of Greta Thunberg speaking at the United Nations Climate Change Conference 2019 (COP25) in Madrid (she also had a short talk at the same conference the year before, in 2018.) She speaks clearly, eloquently, and as far as I can tell, nothing she says is actually wrong. And she is not yelling and screaming. But sometimes telling the truth requires using harsh language. And sometimes you need to speak clearly and explicitly, and not wrap the message in bubble wrap for fear of precious top politicians becoming offended because they suddenly actually understand the message. She has received lots of awards, so clearly she is doing something right.

Not doing something on her own? She first got attention by doing something quite novel, by doing a “school climate strike” in front of the Swedish parliament. Quite innovative and gutsy, if you ask me.
With her activism, she has inspired lots of kids and youth around the world to be more aware of their environment and the climate change we are facing. That is a huge achievement in itself, and not something to be belittled.

She had a gap year from high school to work on her activism, and she is now finishing her high school education. She has only been doing her thing for less than three years. After a few years of higher education, I believe she will be an even fiercer spokesperson for the climate cause.

Edit: fixed sevreal severla several typos

@Get_off_my_lawn Ok. so she has our attention, and making us aware. The next step is to take action. There are people in the world, who are doing something about this, on a daily basis, who are not being recognized for their actions. Talk is cheap. She can give all the speeches and interviews to her heart’s desire, but she needs to also leaf by example - to also put those words in actual actions.

Yes, get our attention, but also help us to find the solutions as well, or if there are solutions, implement them, and walk the talk.

And by the way…black coffee is awesome.

Sadly - there are solutions. Lots. No will and no real $$$ to be made.

Clean water? No problem. Desalination? Yup :+1: alternatives to wood paper? Yes. Plastics? Yes.

We have the technologies and the ability. What we also have is political bullshit, corruption, greed and corporate profits. The “need” for more is an insatiable appetite.


Yes…short term, selfish thinking. If we really want to save the world from climate and environmental catastrophe, we first must change ourselves.

Good luck with that, as it is easier said than done.

But I agree with @Get_off_my_lawn that Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize make no sense. It should be given to one who does something extraordinary, like finally achieving lasting peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.

That is Nobel Prize worthy!!!

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What do you mean? She refuses to travel by airplanes. She crossed the Atlantic twice, first on a boat run by solar panels and underwater turbines, and then on a sail boat. It’s not as if she doesn’t live as she preaches.

And again – she’s just 18 years old. Give her a break. She doesn’t hold a position of power so she can actually implement changes. Yet. She also is not a scientist or a technologist so she can invent new technology. Yet. Unless bullying dickheads that are unwilling or unable to face the science continue to bully her and forces her to stop, she will continue to inspire not only kids and adults to take action. I would say that’s putting words into action – action by leading and action by example.

What exactly do you want her to do, and on what time scale? Uninvent oil, coal and combustion engines? Make nuclear fusion power plants a reality within the next year? Abolish greed? Fix the climate problem by doing godly god-like divine magic by waving a wand? For being an 18 year old, she has done a remarkable amount in less than three years, by drawing the attention of the world and pointed out the bleeding obvious. The actual implementation must be done by politicians in power and scientific and technological experts. She cannot do that all by herself for the bloody obvious reason that (did I mention that yet?) she’s only 18 years old and does not hold a political office of power, nor does she have a science degree. Yet.

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@Get_off_my_lawn Screw the political system and politicians. They are useless. There are people who are actually doing something, like planting trees, or coming up with better green technology.

It is not that we are not aware of climate change. We are aware, and things are being done. But all the pontificating by Greta gets more attention than those, who are actually doing something to help, even in small ways. Those people are also speaking out like Greta, but are taking actions as well. They talk, but also walk the talk by actual actions.

These people deserve recognition, not Greta.