Atheists & Pagans Mutual Goal

We are also very lucky some Pagans on the site are not running the farm. They would be hanging Christians, burning churches, and fighting Christians wherever they found them.

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I do not embrace the “us versus them” mentality. Most people are good people, even if they fall victim to this scam.

I would rather encourage just whittling away slowly with education and rational thinking.

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AND born into it.

The idea of a “fight” :roll_eyes: - the emotional pleas against the “evil them”…

It has been education and a FOCUS on humane, equality/acceptance and secular (responsibility to society vs belief) that has been slowly moving humans away from extremely tribal identities. Small steps towards “better” are in my opinion, continuing to happen.

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Bravo…it is a phrase that to me reeks of closed minded bigotry.

Very true, good people can sadly be all too easily convinced to endorse bad ideas.

You sir, are on fire…have a like.

@Sheldon One simple fact our pagan friend omits is that those people we may choose to “fight” are my parents, siblings, cousins, friends, neighbors, fellow workers, and just about anyone we encounter in our daily activities.

They enrich my life, they make things interesting, they bring happiness and joy to me. Change does not have to be a revolution, I personally gravitate to the concept that a slow and gradual shift is one that becomes permanent and much more effective.

One example is the monarchy. It was a firm institution, beyond criticism and change. But over the decades (centuries) it has faced increased scrutiny, and each year, more and more people question what it is, is it beneficial, and why do we need it anymore?

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Rapid change in any society is often accompanied by violence. I’m keen to reduce suffering, not to settle scores as @Socialdarwin seems to want.

His sweeping derogations of Abrahamic religions borders on bigotry as well. Since there are many moral and well meaning people who happen to be adherents of those religions.

Its an ironic fact that we generally hear the most egregiously shrill voices in these religions, but it’s just as clear there are many good people among those religions you never hear from.

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I’ll go even further with a controversial opinion:

Rapid change in any society is often accompanied by violence.

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I do not even know what his gameplan is. He is advocating a “fight”, but in what manner, where, and against whom?

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I was kinda hoping that is what would happen with Socialdarwin. Well, If I had my way, a whole lot more people would know more about “How to think” than “What to think.” I think it’s sad that not everyone shares the ideal.

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@Socialdarwin If we manage to eradicate the Abrahamic religions, what would we replace it with?

This ought to be interesting.

I see it in the primary schools I am familiar with, and I am sure you see it too. There seems to be a growing gap between those who can work their way through a problem, and those who just memorize and are completely lost when asked to think.

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I don’t ever see him answering, if I’m honest.

@Socialdarwin: Eraducate this and eradicate that and we will have a perfect little dictatorship. I say we bring back slavery and just make anyone without the capacity to think rationally a slave. We tell them that suffering is God’s way of testing their faith and that their reward is waiting for them in a magical place called “Heaven” after they die. We can just use their belief against them. We should just become the dictators. Once we get the damn Christians under control, we can deal with the Jews and then on to the Pagans. We can eliminate religion from the world… WHAT A GREAT FUCKING IDEA. (Idiotic Rant!)

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You want to see a bunch of blank stairs. You hand out writing paper to a class of Koreans and just ask them to write a paragraph on any topic they like. From high school age to adult, most of the class will sit there and wonder what they are supposed to write about. Some will even raise their hands and ask. “What should we write about?” It doesn’t matter. “I just want to see if you can construct a paragraph.” And so they continue sitting. Finally, a student who is writing something, will say something in Korean. “Write about an animal you like. I’m writing about dogs.” Half the class now has a paper with the title. “Why I like dogs.” or “Dogs are my favorite pet.” I am always amazed at this.

Korean education is teacher centered. The teacher tells them what to write, they write it. This whole idea of “express yourself” scares the shit out of them. Having an individual idea that might not be shared by others is scary. Better to keep quiet and get along. (Welcome to Confucianism.)

That is just sad :cry:

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I am trying to remember who suggested this, a French philosopher from my faulty memory. If anyone can help me with this I’d appreciate it.
Anyway, the idea was something like, it would be a mistake to abolish any religion because at this point we have a handle on what and why theists believe but if their current theology were removed and they were left to themselves there is no telling what else they may decide to believe in which may very well be worse than their current convictions.
A “let sleeping dogs lie” policy for religion if you like, which raises another point. Simply for questioning their beliefs in a debate here in AR or in discussion in social circumstances, theists adopt intensely aggressive modes. Imagine their response to trying to eliminate outright their faith. Atheists and most definitely the pagans are seriously outnumbered and insufficiently represented politically and militarily to do achieve anything effective in any sort of ‘fight’ except surrender or die as martyrs. I’d prefer Gandhi’s “passive resistance” which successfully removed the power of the British Empire from India.
And a clever ingrained aspect of Christianity at least is that they simply love to think of themselves as being oppressed. Oppression does not discourage them it is inculcated into the religion as being proof of the strength of their faith. They expect and welcome oppression and are confident in their resolve to resist it. After all the very worst that can happen to them is to go to heaven for eternity, like meek and mild jihadists.

That would be the end of a free society. Their freedom is also our freedom. When the government steps in and begins telling people what they can and can not believe, the world has officially gone to shit.

The Government is already overbearing in my opinion. And it appears to be getting worse as cities use police departments to generate revenue, they invent laws, ordinances, and fine the population with their dipshit restrictions, “for the good of all.” Fuck that.

I don’t have to be in extremis to lie my arse off. Perhaps not so much bare faced lying as deliberately giving a false impression. I guess that’s lying by omission. Last time that happened was over a decade ago. The issue just doesn’t come up.

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When I lie I tend to fall into this category- I feel it’s “none of your business” (private) and allow the other person to “assume”.

I don’t correct them.

I’m a horrible bare-faced liar. Just horrible :disappointed:

Me neither. But it’s more about being an intolerant old crunt. If they try to engage me on their personal superstition I may say something unkind. Perhaps that comes from valuing my privacy.