Are all religions, just global cults?

Debate Room
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Oh, crazy busy good or crazy busy not so good?

It’s been a great day so far. Yesterday looked gorgeous, top temperature of around 27 C .Sadly I ruined it with an irresistible bout of enthusiasm which led to house work, some of it bi annual .(vacuuming under the bed, that kind of thing )

Today has been just about perfect. Temperature of around 35 C (90F) I turned on my beast of an a/c and have spent the day pottering. This is something at which I have become increasingly skilful with age. One is occupied , but doesn’t actually **do ** anything.

Had a pasty for lunch***. Dinner soon . Debating with self about going to the supermarket for some Sara Lee cheesecake and a 5 litre (about a gallon and a half) tub of proper ice cream. When I pig out I do it properly :exploding_head:

**they were Balfours and half price @4 for $4.00!

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You keep making unevidenced assertions, so I don’t have to demonstrate evidence to reject your claims.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?

I keep asking, you keep ignoring, quelle surprise.

Your endless unevidenced assertions, and your inability to demonstrate any objective evidence for the deity you’ve decided to believe is real. Also your refusal to even engage in honest rational discourse to address those facts.

No religions can demonstrate objective evidence for any deity, that’s axiomatic.

Atheism is not a belief, or a claim, therefore it requires no evidence, that’s like asking what evidence you have that invisible unicorns don’t exist…it makes no rational sense.

You made an unevidenced claim about Muslim scholars, now you’re demanding I produce evidence for my rejection of that claim, you’re fucking clueless sorry. The larger initial claim carries the burden of proof, as per Hitchens razor, derived from the Latin proverb quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur. What is asserted freely can be denied freely. Your assertion about Muslim scholars was unevidenced, so my rejection of it was offered in the same fashion.

Odd you get butt hurt when someone does this back to you once. When your endless sententious preaching does it all the time, but of course this is ample evidence of your bias.

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Hmm.

Irony overload, how exactly does the lack of a reply negate anything? It’s sad you can’t see how idiotic a claim that is, but your frustration at your fatuous beliefs being held up to critical scrutiny ought really to give any open minded person pause.

Sadly we’ve seen the angry blinkered closed minded response of too many theists on here and elsewhere, for it not be self evident that you have zero interest in open minded or rational debate about your religious beliefs.

That’s how bias usually manifests itself.

Now once again then, what objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?

It’s surely not that difficult a question, you either have objective evidence or you don’t, if you don’t then admit it, and stop accusing others of bias, if you do then demonstrate it.

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Annoying isn’t it?

You owe me an irony meter.

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I’m currently debating who has burden of proof with someone on YouTube, this guy is actually more engaging than the person that is currently spamming nonsense at me.

:neutral_face:

The bar is reeeeally low today, apparently

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Yes.

Regular. Our “time change”’always throws me for a loop. I was running out of it like crazy and I’d try to capture some BUT time was escaping me… so sad :sob: couldn’t control my most valuable thing…

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@Nogba

I took a lot of pics of the Koran scripture (? word choice). I did it around the texts that the link you provided gave me. Thanks for the link. I ignored the “comments” surrounding the scriptures.

Now, so you understand, this part isn’t to be rude or “not want to learn”. This part is important to me! I figure, (if) god has something to say to me - it’ll be said directly.
I don’t need a “translator who read it and will guide me” to this conclusion or this “understanding”. I think (if) god should be capable of saying what he wants without someone telling me ahead of time.

So, for example,
At first, the guy said the flood was local (not global). That would explain ALOT because when I grew up I was taught and shown from the bible that the flood was global. Genesis chapters 6-8. “the earth” :earth_africa: is used constantly and (if) god created the “earth”, then it’s the whole thing right? This idea of a global flood went away a long time ago (but that’s a big discussion with lots of conversation).
I caught myself thinking “Wait - I‘ll read the book (Koran) areas first” (I always do) then talk about it.

**stops to sip coffee and have a smoke :smoking: **

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Now first off I noticed that Allah is “Lord of the Worlds” (now, myself I’d think planets, moons, stuff like that - I don’t go off putting life on those worlds until science demonstrates it, just because there is life on this one). 64 pretty much says what I was taught, saved Noah and them and drowned everyone else…and so does 37. Now, of course I’m reading around it too, and read 45-47. Now this is a descriptor. It is describing the sunlight and shadow and sun rising and sun setting. HOWEVER describing something and then saying (if) god (or how text is “inspired” We made then describe natural stuff) isn’t good evidence for me. BUT I would expect a book that says (god stuff) to link the two things together.

Now it was a deep flood. One son wanted
refuge on a mountain :mountain_snow: and the ark settled there after the water receded. Now in 44 the earth :earth_africa: swallows back up the water. Up till this point it was just mankind. (Now ALL of mankind or just the local “man-kind” - we have natives here with a long, long evidenced history; also in S America - goes back far; I think China (Asia areas) do the same)… is this “local earth” or “all earth”? I keep this in mind when I read…

It was saying “communities” (48) so I figured the groups/tribes living there BUT maybe there are more earthwide and “mankind” …

Now 49 is about the “did not reveal prior stuff to you” and 43 “no protection…Allah’s
judgment” … 40

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So I’m going to stop for a second.
The story is close to the bible one written by Moses (claimed to be written by…) BUT this gets me thinking just about (if) god and the way he goes about doing stuff.

So, a baby :baby:t3: to a kid :child: isn’t “made right” or a believer (they’re focused on learning to walk and talk and play…) so they die. If Allah “knew” these particular kids were “bad” then why bother making them at all (there are stories where a womb was dried up, why not just dry up all the wombs first)? Why let them be born to drown …when Allah executes something isn’t it “final”? I mean like “FINAL” - aren’t all those ones an example of “Divine Judgement” to at least serve as an example? So I don’t think he’s letting babies or kids out of hell if they were already judged as “mankind” and the “good” ones just knew to go on the Ark. These kids didn’t pull away from their mom or dad’s hands and go running off to the Ark, and babies didn’t start crying in the arms of their parents (cause they couldn’t walk yet) …drowning sucks. I think of animals. What did they do to deserve all this? That one always made me mad. I’m told (if) god loves his creation BUT - not the animals… have you ever watched nature shows??? Oh well, another topic for another day.

I use to think…hmmmm :thinking: what ways could I kill a bunch of people if I was god? Seriously.
I didn’t think it to be disrespectful- I just wondered…

Mind you -
I don’t know if Allah likes questions… :grimacing: came across this…

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I mean, I can see where this makes it easier to “digest” people not agreeing with you.
It can also make it easier to not care or love people.
It can make it easier to not try to understand them OR why they think the way they think.

OR you are just told “they think this way or that way because they are bad - that’s just the way they are made”…

You’re lucky you were made “good” - whew! No work involved. Kinda like being born into a “rich” family - just plain lucky!!!

My understanding of hell is “hades”. You can look it up if you want.

For now, I am not convinced… I’m not convinced because I haven’t gotten good answers.

So I’m atheist. I’m a BIG BIG VERRY BIG IF god - so I with-hold belief.

A claim made without evidence CAN
Be dismissed without evidence

I don’t accept the god claim. Just like I don’t accept that the “marbles are even”.

Now I separated this because you don’t have to read it. I’m going to swear (a lot of older posters have wondered is this Whitefire) NOW I am NOT swearing at your particular (if) god or you or your religion Islam

I don’t like to be fucking confounded or deceived by humans. I live in a world where politicians, and authorities and governments and parents and friends and kids all fucking lie (naturally) and try to manipulate, deceive and confound. I have a tough enough TIME trying to figure out what some person is fucking saying or doing LET alone anything else.

If it makes me “bad or wicked or whatever” because I don’t just listen to a human with an idea - so fucking be it! Fine then - I am the worse fucking asshole bitch you’ll ever come across in THIS area of getting to “what is true - as close as humanly possible”

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Whoever makes the claim has the burden of proof. That’s not obvious?

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Oh, daylight saving has just finished? Here in in South Australia it is from Oct 4 to April 4 . Throws my internal clock out of kilter for several days. Not all states observe daylight savings, so it can be a bit confusing for a bit.

When daylight saving was first mooted here, there were some rather fraught letters to the press. My favourite was a lady who complained that daylight saving would fade her curtains. There was also a farmer who didn’t like the idea of getting up before he went to bed. :face_with_monocle:

PS It’s 0810 Wednesday Nov 11 here and nothing of interest about the election yet. I’ll check again around lunch time.

PPS apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick about daylight saving .

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Apparently not, at least not in the YouTube comment section, it’s the subject I have to debate above all others when discussing the existence of God.

Honestly, theists 95% of the time answer with, “prove God doesn’t exist!” whenever I ask for demonstrative evidence.

It’s extremely tiresome, sometimes the debate doesn’t go beyond that, they just deny they have to prove God exists over and over, denying that they have the burden of proof. :roll_eyes:

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Judging by the apologists we get here, most believers are incapable of reasoned debate. To be expected I think. Religious belief is based on blind faith. ( believing without seeing)***

Religions also tend to be anti science, anti reason and anti intellectual… They justify their beliefs through cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Their beliefs have been absorbed uncritically, usually before the age of reason. Perhaps naive to expect they will be able to have any kind of reasoned discussion about their personal superstitions. I guess one may always hope.

***John 20:29 " Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" (KJV)

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Ye ole, shifting the burden of proof… Silly Christians.
Agree with them. They can certainly believe any silly superstition that they want to believe. It is, after all, their life.

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Absolutely! Until they knock on my door.

My devout Catholic father hated JW’s.

Eg On a Sunday afternoon. I answer a knock on the door.

Dad: Who is it son?"

Me: “JW’s dad.”

Dad, with a roar “GET THE DOG OUT!!!” (JW’S exit stage right)

My favourite; Latish on a Sunday morning, after mass. Dad is watering some shrubs with the hose.
Enter a pair of JW’s. Dad says nothing. He simply turns the hose on them. Exit wet JW’s stage left.—That was ca 1960. Sadly, you can no longer get away with away with that in Oz any more.

Why do you know, I’m no longer allowed to take my brick on a string into the supermarket? It was to hit the parents of recalcitrant children. It’s all in the wrist. Anyway, these days I have bigger fish to fry.—People who speak loudly on their mobile phone whilst in the check out line. I’m planning on setting fire to the next one I notice.

Father Jack is a great comic grotesque. Worth watching an episode of Father Ted if you are unfamiliar.

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Well fuck me that made me laugh out loud…

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Me too when I read it.

One letter to the editor which was funny and not at the same time, also decades ago. A Mrs Godhelpus*** wrote in to say that an atheist couldn’t possibly have any sense of morality because all morality came from god via the bible.

These days I tend be less amused when seeing the same claim made by an apologist on an atheist forum.

***Not her real name

Trivia: in civil war England there was in fact a real person called ‘Praisegod Barebones’. The Dickens character of Major Elijah Pogrom was not real.

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Better than ‘Bigus Dickus’

I hope you get the reference :see_no_evil:

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Yes I think so

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@Nogba

Not sure if you are still reading…

Just so you know, I’d look :eyes: UP. Oh my, I see a car. Now I can make a decision. If I looked UP and saw nothing - well … uh …

I haven’t got any money :yen: from you yet! Good! You’re smart!!!
See, here where I made the “offer” after 2 years YOU can’t sue me for YOUR money back! It’s gone - wiped out!!! Lucky me :smiling_face: AND I don’t have to “pay you” … Lucky me :smiling_face:

Now YOU could have sent me the money, AND then really examine the “contract” after… you might stumble on to the fact it’s shitty and get your :dollar: back BEFORE the 2 years is up!

BUT you were smart! You didn’t even send it!!! Sounded too good to be true???

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In the case of God, since he’s God, he gave you everything even the 100$ you’re gonna give him lol, you example make no sense, God created every single thing ever, there is nothing that it doesn’t belong to him. what are you talking about?

you’re right, let’s say then, you don’t see it, somebody told you that there is a car? would you lose anything to just believe him? he could be just playing with you, but the car could land on you while you’re laughing at him though? more than 90% of the population of the world say that there is a god, it’s like 90% of the people saying to you that there is a car above your head. don’t tell me that there are a lot of religions. this is not your problem, your problem is you don’t believe in God at all. when you do, then start searching which one is the right one. are you gonna believe the 10%? it’s your choice, you’re alone gonna pay if there are any consequences, no body give **** if you don’t care, it’s your choice, every body is making their choices, I’m here because I’m learning English, and I like to talk about this subject, in my part if there is no God I won’t lose anything, being religious doesn’t prevent me from living my life in full, even if I’m sure there is no god, i would like to do the worship anyway, because it’s beneficial to me, it helps me be honest, it helps me be rigid, it helps me find the balance, it helps me be happy, it helps me have a purpose when I feel I lost the purpose, I find my religion is the answer.

I know how it sounds like bullshit to you, but whatever. no body has the answare, so you could say what ever makes you happy is the answare right ?
I’m not saying the 90% are right, but since nobody knows, the safe thing is to beleive the 90%.