Are all religions, just global cults?

Debate Room
102

Ohhhhh so sorry :neutral_face: @Nogba

I like to read-read stuff. And think about our conversation.
I saw this above.

BUT GOD SAID HE would write it EXACTLY like the first

Look!!!

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GOD! He wrote the first - he said he’d do it again EXACTLY the same words… BUT they are not.

Anyway. Re-read our posts. I didn’t learn to “read” in one day - conversations take time…

To trust ANY PERSON who has stuff in writing who says “god did this” … see??? Big problem for me. I like honesty and getting to what is true (or as close as humanly possible). BUT not just saying “ahhh, that’s OK, no biggie - it’s just a falsehood … so I’ll believe it anyway…”

Time for a little nap :sleeping:

103

not me, who created her is, who is lying here ? where did i dictated anything, god does not me !!

people use probabilities when they don’t know the result, in case you didn’t know.
if you went to a doctor and he told you 50% you have a sickness, it’s a dumb question to ask him what proof you have that i have a sickness, it’s a probability !! the doctor is not sure 100% that you have sickness.

your question should be probably what evidance do you have for your probabilities.
no body can confirm that god exist and no body can confirm that god doesn’t exist so it’s 50/50

i’m just telling you my thoughts on what’s gonna happen on each case, i’m not claiming anything.

104

am i now bible expert ? how do you want me to answer that, logicaly true god have ability to do that, why wouldn’t he ? he doesn’t have the ignorance to make mistakes, for your knowledge muslims consider bible corrupted. and i told you don’t talk to me about the bible.

105

since you quote from bible let me give some quotes too.

My Word cannot be changed,1 nor am I unjust to ˹My˺ creation.” Quran chapter 50 verse 29

Do you ˹believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it? quran here is talking about the people of the book go check if you want Quran chapter 2 verse 75

And they1 have not shown Allah His proper reverence when they said, “Allah has revealed nothing to any human being.” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Who then revealed the Book brought forth by Moses as a light and guidance for people, which you split into separate sheets—revealing some and hiding much? You have been taught ˹through this Quran˺ what neither you nor your forefathers knew.” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Allah ˹revealed it˺!” Then leave them to amuse themselves with falsehood. Quran chapter 6 verse 91

106

That’s gibberish sorry, you implied I was advocating killing babies, this is an asinine lie, as I have never advocated anything of the kind. Th simple fact is, that like all the theists I have ever heard offer their vapid disjointed rhetoric against abortion, they haven’t even a the vaguest grasp of the moral arguments involved.

You have offered nothing but the unevidenced claims that:

  1. God wants (insert unevidenced claim).
  2. Babs have souls (presumably you mean, foetuses).
  3. Anyone who doesn’t share your unevidenced views, wants to "kill babies, and fornicate.

I ask again, since unsurprisingly you keep ignoring the question, What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?

That question is key to you whole position, so of course you refuse to answer.

107

Oh bollocks, you have made this assumption from the very start.

Nonsense, you are making the claims, you refuse of course to even acknowledge that you have been asked repeatedly to evidence your claim a deity even exists.

108

No problems
I consider the bible corrupted too. I don’t expect you to be a bible expert. I don’t think there is such a thing. The only reason (and I stuck to the same one) was this scripture was already discussed by us (not a new scripture). About Moses (a prophet you accept)… and you used the Koran to find the Commandments (the old ones - the ones in the original tablets that were broken)
Geez :roll_eyes:. Not my fault this prophet wrote the book the way he did.

Is this gods word throughout all or just the Koran? The bible says the same thing, but you say it’s corrupted. Now perhaps a word or two - but the message??? Whole books??? OR is this an explanation for the Ten Commandments? Can’t god keep his “work” protected for human’s sake… he may know everything, but I don’t…so how is this not in some way “unjust”? How does this build trust in “prophets”?

Again - hidden truths, revealed truths - half-truths … :woman_shrugging:t2:… is this a question for me or an answer?

Yes. I checked that Muslims use the Koran and Mohammed comes after Jesus (a foretold “comforter”) like the Part Three of a soap opera saga. I’m SO not amused by falsehood. In fact, I think “falsehood” has what gotten humankind into this “mess” (wars for example). My amusement “ends” when harm comes to others because of a falsehood.
THIS is my biggest reason for trying to get as close to “what is true” as possible. I can handle truth - but lies??? Despise people who knowingly lie for their own advantage.

You can quote the Koran but I’m not gentle when it comes to reading it and telling you what I read.

109

Why in the fuck is @Nogba digging into abortion now? Does he not know that God is perfectly okay with the killing of babies? Abortion is ordained by God and the right of every husband. How many babies does god kill in the bible? How many pregnant women get their bellies slashed open and their infants tossed onto rocks? How many first born sons are slaughtered? WTF is this idiot on about now? ABORTION PRACTICED IN THE BIBLE

" And the priest shall cause her to swear, and shall say unto the woman: ‘If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness, being under thy husband, be thou free from this water of bitterness that causeth the curse;
20 but if thou hast gone aside, being under thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee besides thy husband–
21 then the priest shall cause the woman to swear with the oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman–the LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to fall away, and thy belly to swell;
22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to fall away’; and the woman shall say: ‘Amen, Amen.’
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a scroll, and he shall blot them out into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that causeth the curse; and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter."

— Numbers 5, JPS 1917.

God has no problem making mothers eat their own babies: "• God enumerated his punishments for disobedience, including “cursed shall be the fruit of your womb” and “you will eat the fruit of your womb,” directly contradicting sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53).

God, the greatest facilitator of Abortion of all time: "• God will punish the Israelites by destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16).

• For rebelling against God, Samaria’s people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword (Hosea 13:16).

Jesus did not express any special concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: “Woe to pregnant women and those who are nursing” (Matthew 24:19).

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110

Babies are bad :baby:t3:

Kill all babies… :baby:t3:

Lol. JUsT JOKING :upside_down_face:

111

man do you have a proof that it was the prophet’s fault ?
i think that logically god is infallible, which means that his prophet is too.
in my opinion it can only be from the people after him.

It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it. chapter 15 verse 9
quran says that quran is preserved, but i know that you could say what if this verse itself is corrupted, muslims scolars have a way of proving that quran is preserved, they say that since muhammed’s time, thousends of people started memorizing it in their brains so it can be completely preserved, if anyone wanted to corrupte it, it would be almost impossible, because if you want to do that, you’re gonna have to travel the entier world and search for all those people who have memorized quran, so now we have probably millions of people that memorizes quran, and everything is mached, we have only one book, and no one is arguing the authenticity of it.

i would appreciate not insulting and respecting my religion, other than that you can do what ever you want.

112

That’s overkill I think. (ahem)

The eldest of four, being 13 when the last sib was born. I Changed zillions of nappies (diapers) and often baby sat. I have no romantic illusions about babies.

Had to wait until I was over 30 before I found a woman who didn’t want to have children. Since then, from time to time I have regretted not having children. That feeling can last as long as 5 minutes.

Thought for the day: “Baby: A loud noise at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other” (Ronald Knox)

Having said all that, there is not a scintilla of doubt that MY child would be perfect in every way! :face_with_monocle:

113

I would never insult you. You so far, have been reasonable. You don’t just shut off or get
mad at me for asking a question. You haven’t so far called me stupid or an “apostate” (the worse of the worse). I may insult you, if you insult me first (so no promises :woozy_face:)…

BUT ideas presented or writings from a book - they can be challenged and questioned.

They are, it is claimed “from god” so god should be able to defend himself. Even through a book (I would think). I wouldn’t expect you to know everything - I don’t know everything… hopefully stuff won’t be hidden from you (just a joke).

If you don’t want me questioning the Koran…you don’t have to use it. Or you can. It’s up to you.

So basically, I can’t control what you would view as “disrespecting” your religion. I won’t swear or call your god “names” or anything BUT if asking questions or seeing a contradiction is “disrespectful” then I will most likely keep the Koran on my mental “book written by a man to tell people what god wants” shelf. It’s full of those books.

114

He/she would have Cranky!!! Been perfect…just like you :kissing_heart:.

My boys are perfect :ok_hand:t3: not a thing like me …well, maybe a few traits…

115

If you want to address anything from before - that’s fine. Or if you want to talk about Noah… it’s common ground -
Old Testament, New Testament (Jesus believed in Noah) …is he in the Koran?

Is Noah a prophet? I won’t use the bible at all.
You can just use the Koran if it makes you more comfortable.

Tomorrow though… not tonight…

116

Another theist who tacks the word logic onto his claims, to use as vapid rhetoric.

Try demonstrating some objective evidence for any deity first.

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117

You don’t get to tell people what ideas and beliefs are worthy of respect, not on here anyway.

Now one more time, what objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?

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118

It does seem entirely pointless having a discussion, about how any God feels about the actions of humans, when there is no evidence to suggest such a God exists.

Until some demonstrative evidence is shown that any such deity exists, any further discussion is akin to pandering to a child.

(imagine there’s a tea cup in orbit around Saturn)

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119

:grimacing:…

Just re-reading our conversation. I love to learn, BUT you said this… so, am I going to hell???

Now to be clear - I was absolutely CERTAIN of god’s existence… I had reasons and evidence given to me from birth (the Old and New Testament). I came to the conclusion that the bible was corrupted. Now my “evidence” was “a man wrote stuff down” AND I believed what those men said and wrote. I was told to believe what those men said BECAUSE god said to - and god gave them his word - BUT it wasn’t “trustworthy” … corrupted

So I wanted demonstrable evidence OF god. I boiled it down to “if god exists- there should be some evidence in our world OR god would let me know”… nope neither. So now, yes I want “god to reveal himself and settle all matters” - I just want a “settle” of his EXISTENCE… then I can go from there…

Now to be clear - I did believe; I do not believe now… I’m going to hell.

I guess this still works with Noah… does the Koran mention Noah? Is there a story? I’ll read it.

120

I don’t believe that you’re going to hell. :eyes:

121

@Wily_cat
…

That’s OK :+1:… I don’t mind. Just more interested in “getting as close to what is true - as HUMANLY possible”…

If I go there, then I know that “god” (if god) didn’t really care about teaching me …