Akiane's Story Proves Atheists Wrong

[Grinseed]

I claim no possession of any special wisdom. At best I only claim imperfect knowledge of this world. And I can only determine the truth of things by applying an examination of things presented and eliminating that which is obviously untrue and reserving things that comply with what I have already determined as true and those due to the limit of my understanding and knowledge, deserving further examination.

The real issue here has more to do with the processing of information. Your version of Akaine’s story as a theological prodigy born and raised by atheist parents has been shown, even by the very references you supplied to be totally untrue, and you inaccurately emphasised in several places her parents were atheists. They were not. If you are unable to admit that you got the story wrong, why should anyone be convinced you are capable of discerning any sort of any transcendent truth or wisdom?
I also note that despite the inaccuracy of your version of her story being pointed out , you have avoided addressing that particular issue. Your silence on the matter is a sign of denial. Not a good look for a proponent of truth. I don’t have to necessarily think you are being dishonest here, I could think you have profound trouble objectively comprehending information and deriving conclusions that don’t fit your very subjective religious view of reality.

In any case childhood indoctrination is over-rated and doesn’t always work for the benefit of any purpose, religious or political. Many atheists are proof of that. The atheist argument is that religious childhood indoctrination is equivalent to brainwashing and does not produce true believers but rather automaton adherents incapable of making deliberate informed and honest choices.

Child prodigies are well evidenced. Five and four year old Korean children performing violin concertos; six year olds presenting complex mathematical calculations worthy of college students, or displaying confident fluency in several languages all make me feel good as evidence of our collective potential.

However I have never come across a story about a four year old who was conversant in the basic tenets of Christianity, or independently identified the existence of the Trinity, like Jesus is said to have done in the temple, discussing finer points of Mosaic Law with the priests, but then that story is such an incredible account worthy of a divine it is used to show how different Jesus was to mere humans. Instead, I have only heard, in some cases first hand, cute, innocent stories of talking, or playing, with Paddington Bear, or Tinkerbelle, never Jesus or Buddha. Innocent childhood fantasies, some told with the sole intention of pleasing or impressing parents.

Henry, before you can attempt to convert others with your perception of truth, you have to understand what truth is, and here is a hint: it is not dishonestly altering the life stories of others to suit your personal narrative.
The purpose of this thread as you stated has not been achieved, because the argument was a strawman.

[Old_man_shouts_at_cl]

@Henry_Shymexx

The fact remains that the purpose of this thread which is to prove a baby doesn’t need indoctrination to be religious as atheists think has been accomplished, and you’d need to live with that

If the purpose of this thread is to convince me that theists like you are capable of altering the facts of a story to suit their agenda. Yes, Henry, you succeeded.
All you have done is drag the already murky reputation of jesus advocates one step closer to the sewer. Why do you do this?

[boomer47]

@Grinseed

. Innocent childhood fantasies, some told with the sole intention of pleasing or impressing parents.

At four I had an invisible friend (mum told me, I’d forgotten).

His name was Mr Bailey and I apparently blamed him for anything I did wrong. Very handy for the very short time that remained cute…

At six the nuns were teaching me about sin, the devil and hell. For a short time I would apparently say '“The devil made me do it”. My devout mother just wouldn’t wear it

There was also this one very weird nun who told we six year olds all about some of the more gruesome deaths of the martyrs. Little Cranky had nightmares. So mum went over and had words with the head nun, who was apparently very apologetic***

Over the years, mum often had words with either the nuns or the head brother at my school. Truth be told, none of 'em should have been put in charge of so much as a chook raffle at the local pub.

**My dad’s family were Irish Catholics. So too were the nuns who taught me until age 10.

[Cognostic]

@Henry_Shymexx

If you believe my efforts are directed to hopeless cases like yours, you think very wrong.

Don’t you think you should have done just a little fact checking prior to posting this bit of nonsense? You hear a story, have an emotional reaction to it, think it proves your position and run off all halfcocked ready to do battle for your lord and you haven’t got a chance.

Every atheist on the site took the time to check the facts prior to posting a reply. Every one of us. The article you posted is media hype at best and an attempt at Christian propaganda to sway the ignorant in its worst form. From beginning to end, it is bullshit. A simple Google search will give you Akiane’s life history as well as the history of her family. The fact that you sit here and keep trying to defend this crap just makes you look like an idiot. Your story has been ripped apart and demonstrated beyond all reason to be full of holes, fallacious, and an outright lie. The longer it takes for you to figure that out, the more ignorant you appear. If you had any real evidence supporting your inane claim, you would have posted it instead of resorting to bullshit comments about the “truth souding ludicrous.” The truth never sounds ludicrous as it is backed by facts and evidence that are undeniable and there is not a competing theory that offers a better explanation of all those facts and evidences. That is WHY you can call it TRUTH. You have no such information in this bullshit story or your bullshit assertions.

[Old_man_shouts_at_cl]

Hear, hear. That what I call a proper pooh throw.

Whether Henry keeps polishing the turd he showed us or not you have shown remarkable fecal crafting abilities.
You may use the bathroom again.

[Henry_Shymexx]

For your information I have a track record of turning atheists into believers

You’re lost beyond the point where you could be possibly found, if you can’t see how atheism is shut down here

So until then, you can keep speaking to yourself

[Sheldon]

@Grinseed

The purpose of this thread as you stated has not been achieved, because the argument was a strawman.

There it is…

[Sheldon]

@Henry_Shymexx

If you believe my efforts are directed to hopeless cases like yours, you think very wrong.

Just as you “write very wrong.” (sic)

Your story was and is risible unevidenced guff, and your thread OP predicated on a straw man fallacy. Several posters have pointed this out to you, you have unsurprisingly failed to address either point even once. Instead preferring to use petulant ad hominem.

[Old_man_shouts_at_cl]

@Henry_Shymexx

For your information I have a track record of turning atheists into believers

Riiiiiiiight. Well you had better produce one so we can chat to them. You see, Henry, I do not believe a word you type now.

You have been caught out lying.

@Henry_Shymexx

if you can’t see how atheism is shut down here

And yet another lie. See?

Produce at LEAST one of these “atheists” you have personally converted you lying shitbag.

[Sheldon]

@Henry_Shymexx

For your information I have a track record of turning atheists into believers

How many unevidenced claims is that now? Incidentally, since I’m curious, what other demographic other than non believers in a deity, can one turn into “believers”, in a deity one assumes?

However since you have chosen to make such an arrogant unevidenced boast in an atheist forum, please demonstrate the best piece of objective evidence for any deity that you have? Since you have inexplicably chosen instead to regurgitate the turgid unevidenced nonsense in that story, that forms the basis of your straw man claim in your OP, bizarrely inept given this latest boast?

@Henry_Shymexx

You’re lost beyond the point where you could be possibly found, if you can’t see how atheism is shut down here

So until then, you can keep speaking to yourself

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, nothing more or less, so the idea it can be “shut down” is asinine. You also seem to have failed to notice that you’re in an atheist debate forum, so the other claim is a spectacularly stupid one.

[Grinseed]

AS an ex-evangelical christian, quantities of converted atheists do not impress me. Been there done that, brother, to my regret.
Do you concoct and tell lies when you convert atheists Henry? Do you pressure your converts with the horrors of eternal torment and how they might die tomorrow? Or do you just tell them the big bang, evolution and abiogenesis is bunk before they beg for redemption? Do you tell them your ‘God’ knows when they’ve told lies? Or do you tell them your ‘God’ loves them and just neglect to explain the small print about the non-negotiable transactional duties and requirements for that ‘unconditional’ love?

Curiously you seem to be as far beyond redemption as I am.
You made up and then told a lie, not as an issue of faith, but just a plain outright lie about someone else’s life to vainly bolster your proud little argument against us poor atheists, and you are incapable of admitting it. I know it bothers you because you refuse to mention it or offer even a word of justification.
Akiane’s parents weren’t atheists were they? Why did you insist they were? Don’t kid yourself that I will ever forget or let you.

Have you asked yourself why you are in denial over that lie, Henry? At least if you can admit your failing you can get on with your converting with one less dark lie hanging over your heart. You know you will feel better. Just admit your lie and we need never mention it again. Unless you turn up next time and tell another intentional blurter.

[Cognostic]

@Henry_Shymexx

For your information I have a track record of turning atheists into believers

Just for the record… if you convert someone to Christianity, how many choices are there when it comes to where you convert them from? Given that every human being on the planet is born without a belief in a God thing and automatically qualifies to be called an atheist by your religion, the claim that you have turned atheists into believers is a particularly silly one. Given that anyone practicing any other religion on the planet is an atheist with regards to your particular religion and your specific god, converting any of them to your silliness is equally insignificant. So when you say, “I have a track record of turning atheists into believers.” You are basically asserting that you have stumbled across some gullible idiots that believe the bullshit you are peddling, and not much more. You really think you have made some sort of point here? Really? Of all the vacuous claims ever made by theists, this one is icing for the cake. You just keep deluding yourself. When your mother told you that you were ‘SPECIAL’ … she did not mean it in a good way. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Whitefire13]

@Henry_Shymexx

So until then, you can keep speaking to yourself

Hahahaha SmilingBirdFood doesn’t…

No doubt you “prayed” before you posted…

[boomer47]

@Old_man_shouts_at_cl

Produce at LEAST one of these “atheists” you have personally converted you lying shitbag.

–And another shit thrower enters the fray. I didn’t say expert because you’re still a bit reticent.

[Calilasseia]

Oh look, it’s bullshit time from a mythology fanboy yet again …

@Henry_Shymexx

Do not be surprised that the Truth sounds ludicrous to you when your brain has been programmed to only be able to comprehend lies and falsehood.

Bollocks.

Care to tell me how several million peer reviewed scientific papers, which all point to testable natural processes being responsible for the universe and its contents, and not your ludicrous imaginary cartoon magic man from your pathetic goat herder mythology, constitute “lies and falsehood”, when they present evidence for the requisite postulates?

If you want to tell me that my proper science education, conducted by some of the most stellar teachers I have had the privilege of knowing, constitutes “lies and falsehood”, I’ll just point and laugh at your stupidity.

@Henry_Shymexx

If you believe my efforts are directed to hopeless cases like yours, you think very wrong

We know what your shitposts are aimed at, namely persuading yourself that the unsupported assertions of a goat herder mythology constitute fact, despite mountains of hard evidence flushing many of those assertions down the toilet.

The only “hopeless” case on display here is you.

@Henry_Shymexx

It’s not for hopeless cases, but those who are truly willing to know the Truth, of which you’re not one.

Bullshit. Read any of those several million scientific papers I’ve mentioned above, have you? No? In which case, you’re in no position to lecture the people here who paid attention in class on the subject of “truth”.

@Henry_Shymexx

So expect what I do to sound foolish to you. It’s because that’s what wisdom is to you.

Oh wait, preferring evidentially supported postulates overe unsupported mythological assertions is something you consider “foolish”? Congratulations on demonstrating the palsying effects of your brand of mythology fanboyism.

@Henry_Shymexx

As for me giving up because of people like you, try and first make all atheists become hopeless cases like yours, then perhaps I might give it a consideration.

The masturbation fantasy you’re peddling here is precisely that - a masturbation fantasy.

@Henry_Shymexx

The fact remains that the purpose of this thread which is to prove a baby doesn’t need indoctrination to be religious as atheists think has been accomplished, and you’d need to live with that

You’ve already been exposed as a liar on this matter.

@Henry_Shymexx

For your information I have a track record of turning atheists into believers

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Your track record here is one of failure in this regard.

@Henry_Shymexx

You’re lost beyond the point where you could be possibly found, if you can’t see how atheism is shut down here

Keep telling yourself that the masturbation fantasy you’ve constructed in the television in your head constitutes reality, while the rest of us point and laugh.

The only thing being “shut down” here, is your fatuous and imbecilic assertions.

In the meantime, you can address a question that I keep presenting to mythology fanboys, only for most of them to run away and pretend was never asked, or in a small number of cases, to reply with made up shit apologetics as an ersatz for a substantive answer. Namely:

If your cartoon magic man ever existed, why was this entity incapable of stopping the goat herders who wrote your mythology, from including risible elementary errors therein? Such as failing to count correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, or asserting that genetics is purportedly controlled by coloured sticks?

If you think those two assertions in your mythology constitute “truth”, then you’re even more deluded than many here considered you to be.

[boomer47]

@Calilasseia

Such as failing to count correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, or asserting that genetics is purportedly controlled by coloured sticks?

One of my favourites is the assertion that bats are birds.

Leviticus 11: 13-19 13 “‘These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle,[a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. ( New International Version)

[Calilasseia]

There’s also the hilarity involved in failing to recognise that there are numerous different species of bat. There are 33 species in the Israeli fauna alone, of which 32 are small insectivorous bats, spread across eight taxonomic Families - the Verspertillionidae, the Hipposideridae, the Rhinolophidae, the Molossidae, the Rhinopomatidae, the Miniopteridae, the Emballonuridae, and the Nycteridae. Then there’s Rousettus aegyptiacus, the Egyptian Fruit Bat (Family Pteropodidae), also found in Israel, and which is visibly very different in facial appearance from the insectivorous bats, to the point where an astute five year old could tell the difference, let alone a trained zoologist.

Mind you, my favourite piece of hilarity centres upon the ludicrous Ark fantasy that Ken Ham and other creationist charlatans keep trying to sell as real history to the gullible rubes. The part in question centring upon Genesis 7:2, which reads thus in the KJV that the creotards masturbate over so much:

Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Slight problem here, namely that this fantasy was supposed to have taken place around 2300 BCE, if you believe the bullshit peddled by Ham et al, but the definition of so-called “clean” and “unclean” animals wasn’t presented until Leviticus was written, and the earliest reliable manuscripts for that date to merely 800 BCE. So how the fuck did the 600 year old barge captain know which animals were “clean” or “unclean” fully 1,500 years before the requisite terms were defined? And, for that matter, fully 1,800 years before the Jewish religion as we know it even existed? The earliest archaeological evidence for Judaism being a separate, well-defined religion dates to 500 BCE.

Mind you, Leviticus is a Pythonesque piece of comedy from start to finish, starting with the first ten chapters thereof, all of which are devoted to the business of devising ever more rococo ways of setting fire to small furry animals, in order to please an imaginary magic man. Then you have Leviticus 13 to 16, which in my version of the NIV, reads like a deleted part of the script from the film The Life of Brian. I’ve scanned the pages thereof for the entertainment of anyone who enjoys the humour aspects of mythology fanboyism …

Imagine this little lot being read out by Graham Chapman or Michael Palin in character in The Life of Brian, and you’ll soon alight upon the comedy goodness.

I haven’t yet worked my way through the KJV version, in part because the KJV is funereally boring in many parts, and utterly psychotic in others.

Though I suspect our resident mythology fanboy will concoct the usual specious excuses, to try and hand-wave away all of these embarrassments for his brand of mythology fanboyism.

[Whitefire13]

Ahhhh. The serious study of scripture.

I had really believed in the flood. Seriously. God - stupid shit, eh?

[boomer47]

@Calilasseia

, in part because the KJV is funereally boring in many parts, and utterly psychotic in others.

Yeah, especially ‘the begats’. I gather that’s an attempt at legitimising the Torah (?)

I was under the impression that the Torah was not actually written down until after the Babylonian captivity, in the sixth century bce.

Leviticus is a fascinating book, a favourite of creationist dickheads, regardless of Paul. It also contains many of the 613 mitzvot which make up mosaic law.

[Randomhero1982]

If the OP is daft enough to believe any bible thumping morons story of ‘meeting jesus’ or ‘experiencing God’ despite not ONE has ever been able to successfully evidence a claim…

… then you sir, I have some magic beans to sell to!