Yes, THAT news item that's now on the front pages

So, we now have a news item that’s going to be on the front pages for the foreseeable future, and before someone launches a thread with any of the usual predictable shitpost contents on this issue, I thought I’d make at least some attempt to steer any discourse on this matter into more reasonable channels. Though the level of emotion attached to the issue will almost certainly negate my efforts at some point.

I am, of course, referring to the recent flareup in Gaza.

Most observers are, sadly, resigned to this turning seriously nasty, even more so than it already has. Hamas decided that the way forward was to engage in butchering people, and the current Israeli government isn’t minded to look upon that activity with anything other than a searing desire to enact a terrible revenge. I’m already seeing adverts to this effect popping up on FB, and they’re even starting to interfere with two games I play sometimes that require spells of video watching to progress.

Neither side in this conflict appears willing even to contemplate the notion, that continued desire for revenge is merely going to perpetuate the already multi-generational hatred that seethes away in the region. While the long-forgotten root cause of violence in the region can yet again be traced back to religion, for many of the present generation, that’s been eclipsed by personal hatred for some time.

Three to four years of news footage, featuring IDF soldiers beating and maiming Palestinian children in Gaza (including, of all things, kneecapping incidents), reveals starkly why much personal hatred for Israelis exists among the Gazans. The requisite brutality was no doubt encouraged by Netanyahu, who, like so many right wing demagogues, regards the iron fist as the solution to any administrative problem. That this would eventually push the recipients of said treatment to boiling point obviously never occurred to him.

Trouble is, now that boiling point has been reached, and in a singularly unpleasant manner.

Hamas, of course, will (or at least, should have) destroyed any chance of support for their cause from outside through their latest actions, other than, of course, from their current sponsors. Who, incongruously, are apparently Iranian. How an ostensibly Sunni organisation came to acquire Shia backers, when the two sects have a long history of internecine hatred of their own, is one of those mysteries that will remain unsolvable for all time. Not least because there’s already a Shia player in the region, in the form of Hezbollah, who have been long recipients of Iranian largesse, though the low impact thereof in Gaza might explain the temporary funnelling of finance and resources to Hamas.

Unfortunately, far from learning the requisite lesson, the Israeli government seems determined to turn up the iron fist to Spinal Tap 11. Presumably on the basis that it won’t lose support from vocal (and politically influential) external lobbies, and might even secure itself extra arms into the bargain. Plus, of course, doing so will facilitate the scratching of the revenge itch.

This is not going to end well. Those with the relevant long memories will be thinking of, say, Sabra and Chatila in 1982, an odious episode where the command chain decided to let a quasi-fascist faction be their proxy executioner in Lebanon. Hatreds are still simmering over that one 40 years on. If anything, the current command chain seems hell-bent upon ensuring that this mess will continue well into the 22nd century and beyond.

Even tapping lightly on this hornet’s nest is to be avoided by sensible people, but various hotheads have chosen to give said hornet’s nest a solid kicking with size 12 titanium toecapped boots. The only question that remains at the moment, is whether the hornets in question will be velutina or mandarinia.

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I have for some time now, viewed the middle-east as one big fuck up with multi-generational hatred perpetrated with continuous acts of brutality.

I empathize with those who have been caught up in the extremism on both sides, who (hopefully) are basically folks who want to live their lives.

I already got word that the JWs are all excited because their message is changing to “judgement” and the tribulation is starting :roll_eyes:. I think most Neo-Christians are viewing this as the start of their ideas of various Armageddon and Jesus’ return scenarios.

Most likely, the same can be said for the middle-east “doomsday brings salvation” believers.


On a more military tactical and technical note, I’ve heard well-formulated analyses by political and military analysts etc. (radio, so no readable sources, unfortunately) that conclude that Hamas have planned and considered the current course of action very carefully. Meaning that the recent Hamas excursions into Israel to kill, rape, maim, and abduct civilians are done precisely to make Israel react and overreact in such a way that Hamas can bring the fight to their own home turf and to their advantage. According to what I am being led to understand, urban warfare is among the most complex and dangerous endeavours any military can participate in. The reason being that the advantages of powerful high-tech equipment is largely negated, the attacking soldiers have to get out from their armored vehicles, and we have a situation where the attacker needs to clear the area building by building, room by room, all the time looking out for booby traps, tactical traps, and locate and destroy secret tunnels etc. The defending soldiers, on the other hand, have had lots of time to prepare their positions, tactics, traps, secret tunnels, etc. And given that Hamas seems to have received help from Iran, one would think that this also have included training. In short, there are some very good reasons to think that Hamas wanted Israel to enter Gaza, in order for Hamas to do this war on their terms, giving Israel nothing but disadvantages.

A while ago, during the Trump precidency, I read about these utra-religious “doomsday-promoters”, what made them tick, and how it all fit in with the religious right MAGA-movement in the US (no sources, unfortunately, I seem to have lost the links), and how it fits in like a jigsaw puzzle with anti-abortion legislation, gerrymandering, neo-Jim Crow-laws, and the resurrection of the notion that women should know their place and stay in the home and take care of the kitchen, the kids, and be baby factories. All as part of grand long-term plan to restore some kind of theocracy. Now, I certainly do not want to be or sound conspirational, but if the above have any sort of core truth, it scares the shit out of me, and it illustrates why organized religion is not a force for good.


It’s hard to imagine what any of these people are thinking beyond thoughts of revenge. The tit for tat is an endless cycle. I suppose Hamas is hoping others will join in, but flat out attacking civilians doesn’t seem likely to garner much sympathy, but that could change as things go on and civilian bodies pile up on their side too.

Ahhhh, my new word of the day. Meaning: destructive to both sides in a conflict. I can count on this forum to increase my vocabulary.

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I think that Hamas did this precicely to provoke the Israelis to get back at them in a very heavy-handed way, and then cry “just watch what the nazi-zionist bastards are doing to us”, hoping that by then the media have almost all but forgotten how Hamas started this latest escalation by attacking civilians. Actually, it already works, just look at all the pro-palestinians out in the street and in the media that cries about how awful Israel is, while conveniently staying silent about what Hamas did in the initial phase. Now, for the record, I also think the Israeli government and their military have behaved like assholes since its independence in 1948. But that doesn’t take away their right to self defense.


The Israelis have given too much land back in attempts at appeasement with their enemies. It virtually never works.

Hamas are animals; I haven’t heard a good argument yet about how the shit hole that Gaza has been turned into wasn’t going to be a base for further attacks on Israel.

The IDF will be facing stiff challenges in their counterattack, especially as Hamas has likely planned for it.

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Which land was returned? On all maps that I have seen there are two bloobs of what Palestine used to be. At least what it was under British mandate.

What I’ve always wondered is how Hamas, despite the blockade, manages to get thousands of rockets into Gaza.

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tunnels, smuggled by ship container, corruption in high and low places…same way Rhodesia (Now Zimbabwe) got their guns, bombs and in my case scotch whisky.

Both sides are dominated by vicious terrorists. To maintain the kill ratio that has been maintained for decades (before last week); Israel will need to kill ~20,000 Palestinians in this conflict. I hope there is a change, but I’m betting there won’t be.

Well… Israel is by no means historically innocent in this, and there is a lot to be said about how they have behaved and the policies of their current and previous right-wing governments. However, I do not think that in the current situation the term terrorist is fitting for Israel. We might not like the way Israel is handling this, but Israel is in fact exercising their right to self defense. After all, Hamas drew first blood in a surprising and extremely vicious and ruthless attack in the current “reactivation” of the conflict. And this attack seems designed to provoke Israel to engage the IDF.

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In my book: when you explode a bomb around civilians you are a terrorist. And it doesn’t matter if it was a suicide bomb attached to your chest, or a bomb dropped from an airplane at 30,000 feet.

Because Israeli intelligence agencies (and all intelligence agencies) are over hyped. Corruption, laziness, and downright stupidity plague them all in some form or another. It’s still people at the end of the day who run these things. If you work a dangerous job as a boarder guard making peanuts and someone offers you a substantial amount of money to look the other way, I would bet more than a few take the money.


They told us in the Army that the price to bribe an (amenable) E-1 to E-6 was 3 times their base pay (3 months salary).

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I can absolutely believe that.

Edit: Just for fun looked it up E-6 with 2 years $2,849. Yeaaaaaaaa