Yes, Atheists are actually brainwashed

I was raised agnostic and after decades, now realize the extent of my brainwashing.
This post is intended for those looking for the truth based on overwhelming evidence.
And when I say “Brainwashed” Atheists, it is not a putdown or of disparaging intent but rather a true and honest assessment of their true and honest mental state.

In, fairness, some atheists are really too easily influenced to really be brainwashed. For example, many children “claim” to be atheists when they clearly do not posses the faculty to truly understand their proclaimed belief. This writing is intended for the informed, true believer.
Brainwashing is real.
It is provable.
You are provably incorrect in your position and that is why you are brainwashed.

The Watchmakers argument is valid, complete and correct. The various counters to the Watchmakers argument (by David Hume and others) are easily refuted, point by point, but none of that matters when you are actually, really, honestly brainwashed the way Atheists clearly are. To atheists, the refutations to the Watchmaker argument are obligatory checkmarks and talking points so they run logic circle around logical circle from the inevitability of believing in the atheist false axiom 1:
Deities, Gods and Goddesses are simply silly nonsense.

While making cases like lawyers with the facts against them they never look for the truth as told from their position against such overwhelming evidence. No, it has never been about the truth. The truth was never in doubt starting with axiom 1. All their attempts at using reasoning are to support their absolutely irrational conclusions. Atheists are not atheists because of logic and reasoning but, rather, in spite of it.

Aside from the Watchmakers argument anyone with a basic understanding of science can easily see that the Universe was designed. You just look at it.

Trying to argue about the existence of a designer of our entire reality with a true believing, informed atheist is like trying to argue logically that a tree is a tree. Imagine trying to argue with grown adult human telling you and the world that a tree was not a tree. Later, I’ll show you how that grown adult human got his head screwed up like that.

But first let’s just unload some sssserious, mmmmasssive, EVIDENCE that these, atheist sssspainers need to somehow sssssplain.

Where did all those magic-magnets “poof” into our Universe from? and more importantly why?
Were we simply lucky?
Is it Geico logic? that goes: When you are a bunch of magic-magnets, you poof into existence. It’s what you do.

Where did all of the structure of science come from and why?
Why would magic magnets even have gravity? Because we are, yet again, so lucky?
Why would magic-magnets combine into bigger magic-magnets? So lucky.
And they give of light during this fusion of magic-magnets. Man we got real lucky on that one.
Then, of course, they decide to build the periodic table. Gee, that was sure useful luck.
Now just keep on doing what I am doing here until you get fully functioning, self sustaining and replicating ATP production and just take a look at how many happy coincidences we find. Like winning ever lottery.

So the brainwashed atheists are spouting this obvious nonsense that the whole thing, including all these “coincidences” in science starting with this Magic-Magnet “Poof” Theory and stated just scientifically sprawling in every direction with no end of new knowledge in many disciplines in sight.

In fact, there is more evidence that the reality we experience is designed by an intelligence at a level beyond ours than there is evidence that you are actually you. For example “The Matrix”. You are actually doing a college freshmen course requirement with cool new software that they attach to your head and program all your memories in about 2 minutes. Right up until now. Just to see how you will respond to reasoning and logic.

In every case, version or explanation of how our reality can exist agree that a higher being must necessarily be responsible for our existence. Beginning with Magic-Poof Theory and ending beyond your imagination and still it must always have necessarily been designed.

Atheists do not use reasoning to find the truth. Rather they use logic and reasoning to defend the “obvious fact” that deities, Gods and Goddesses are a bunch of nonsense. In their mind they use “Thor” logic where Thor was created by story to explain why Thunder exists. Of course, today we understand why Thunder exists scientifically so, their logic goes, the existence of our “Designer” is simply, yet another in a long list of divine “failures” trying to explain what science has not yet explained.

Ha. Exactly the opposite. Every time we gain knowledge in science we have, yet additional confirmation that our reality must have been designed. The Atheist, facing overwhelming evidence and reasoning and direct observation is like the Anti-Authorist who refuses to believe that human authors have ever existed for all the books ever written because that there were no witnesses.
Of course a reasoning person could argue that there are witnesses and even video but the Anti-Authorist would simply laugh off the obvious conspiracy of doctored videos and fake witnesses.
Instead, they would post videos of software generating books automatically in their belief that human authors have never existed. There is no end to how the true believer will contort evidence, the truth, even reality itself.

Our reality and particularly our scientific view of reality is obviously designed without question.
Like a tree is obviously a tree without question.

But later you find out that when the guy was a kid his dad always said "We have never had a tree in this yard and we will never have a tree in this yard. Later, as a teenager, he was mowing the lawn in the middle of the back yard and saw a very young oak sapling. Since that was not a tree, he mowed around it and said nothing to his father. Then his father died and the son moved away. But when his mother died he moved back into his childhood home where the oak tree had grown large and strong. The man knew as fact from being told by his dad that their yard has never had and would never have a tree. So what the rest of the world saw as a grown oak tree in his back yard, was actually not really a tree at all. And no amount of reasoning or logic could ever get through to him because he is just that screwed up in the head. When it happens to one man, it is a dude who got his head screwed up. When it happens to a whole group it is brainwashing.

A tree is a tree
the universe was designed
its obvious to anyone who looks
plus the watchmakers argument
Brainwashing is real
Use reasoning and think for yourself
Peace

Hmm…okay, we are all in a Matrix like reality, and all atheists are brainwashed and all who do not believe EXACTLY like you…except you? How come?

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You’re on to something here.

I’d say take this line of thought and run with it toward science and empiricism.

Go ahead, become a “they.” One of us…

If you buy into the watchmaker argument . . . then who made the watchmaker?

If the watcmaker has always existed, then why not skip a step and conclude that the watch has always existed?

Religion always had more to do with brainwashing than atheism.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that the Universe exists infinitely into the past, yet have no problem accepting the belief of a God (or gods?) that exists infinitely into the past?

Can you not see the double standard?

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that is not true

For example: that it isn’t obvious to me.

P.S. I’m a skeptic at heart. When someone tells me X is true, the first thing that flashes into my mind is how could I check that X is true? If I can’t think of a way; I’d say there is a 90% chance the claim is bullshit. If the person making the claim also can’t tell me, I’d raise it to 99% (based on my past experiences).

  1. How can I check that the universe is designed?
  2. How can I check that it is obvious to everyone (else)?

I have no idea how to do those things; and I’m betting you don’t either.

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While atheism is not a belief, I would agree it is treated that way. It’s seen as a belief by people who do not understand it and by children who may be influenced by adults. (I find it interesting how children who believe in atheism may be brainwashed but children exposed to religious ideas get a pass.) Frankly, children are easily influenced by all sorts of ideas. As they grow, develop, and mature, we hope their ideas will also grow, develop, and mature. Atheism encourages skeptical inquiry and criticism. Religion encourages adherence to dogma. In all fairness, which child is more likely to develop mature, realistic ideas about the world around him or her?

The watchmaker’s argument has been debunked in a hundred different ways. You are just wrong. Asserting something is created because of its complexity is fallacious logic. We know things are created because we can identify creators. Other things occur naturally and are a part of a natural process. We contrast the naturally occurring with that which is created. To demonstrate something is created, you must produce a creator. We are still waiting for the theists to do that. There is nothing to debunk here. Show me your creator. Demonstrate the world is created.

HUH… Let’s break this next part down…
P1: Lawyers never look for truth when the facts are against them.
P2: They use reasoning to support their absolutely irrational conclusions.
C: Atheists are not atheists because of logic and reason but in spite of it.

There is nothing sound or logical in any of this idiotic garbage you have just spewed. Atheists are atheists for a million different reasons. Some atheists are skeptics, others may be humanists, and some may be Buddhists. There are New Age Spiritualists who are atheists. Stoicism has its share of atheists. Nihilists are often atheistic. Socialists are often atheistic. Many of the sciences are full of atheists, Biological sciences, cosmology, sociology, psychology, archeology, and more. Each atheist is an atheist for his or her reasons. Look at Dawkins, a biologist who argues for atheism based on his understanding of evolution and the silliness of the idea that God had something to do with creating anything. Compare that to Hitchens, an antitheist/atheist whose atheism is based on the insanity of the church, the deification of human beings as somehow special people, and the horrors of our religious past. Harris would argue that religion has usurped that which is uniquely human, a spiritual experience, and attributed it to God or gods, This experience is attainable by all and it is a part of who we are. No God Needed. It is akin to Buddhist enlightenment. (Short answer, you built an atheist strawman so you could attack it.) Your arguments are inane.

There is no evidence for a “Designed Universe” and you making the assertion does not make it so. You still have all your work in front of you.

Well, the rest is a continuation of the same gibberish as what was cited above. “The universe was designed because I said so. It looks that way to me.”

Yep! Have fun in your designed universe with your designed earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, diseases, supernovas, black holes, exploding stars, earth-destroying asteroid impacts, solar flares, starvation, deformity, space radiation that will kill us if we leave this planet, and so much more. What a great design.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. When you come up with a designer you can point to and link to designing anything, get back to me. We can ask him about all those silly diseases, deformities, and ways he kills people.

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I have a tendency toward atheism (although I admit that I don’t know everything, so maybe I’m wrong) as a reaction to all of the horrible, vile, evil shit that I’ve seen done in the name of religion.

In fact, I honestly believe that I’ve seen much more evil done by religion than good.

From this position, it was a short step to question God’s existence.

Oddly enough, my parents were very disgusted by religion . . . yet I was–if anything–much more religious than either of them. I still haven’t figured this out, but I did have a screwed-up upbringing.

They seemed happy when I deconstructed, but they never tried to pressure me either way.

I remember when there was a T.V. special about a church in Texas that uses the AR-15 rifle as an object of worship . . . which totally disgusted my antigun parents. My sister–at that moment–said “I worship my vibrator. Does that count?”

I though my mother would laugh herself into a hernia.

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Ok, since your title suggests you haven’t a facile grasp of the terms in that title, or you are trolling, I have reasoned you’re not worth bothering with.

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Q1. Don’t know
Q2. Don’t care, doubt there’s a why
Q3. Maybe

Q1. Don’t know. Doubt there’s a why
Q2. Don’t know.
Q3. Maybe
Q4. Cuz

We? I don’t think you should speak for we.

Which atheist?

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Wtf is a “magic magnet”?..

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I think he’s trying to compare magnetism with gravity.

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He couldn’t use actual words obviously, what is it with bat shit crazy trolls, and cryptic woo woo bs? Scratch that, I seem to have answered my own question… :smirk:

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No indeed, it sounded like a compliment. :roll_eyes:

Yeah, I don’t think brainwashed means what you think it means.

Wow! Bullet points then:

  1. That’s not an example, it is a bare unevidenced claim. How are you defining children, how many children did you poll in your research, what was the demographical spread, how are you defining many, where is your questionnaire that established they were insufficiently informed etc etc…
  2. Atheism isn’t a belief, it is the lack or absence of theistic belief.
  3. If one possessed no knowledge whatsoever of a concept one would axiomatically hold no belief it existed, hence one need know nothing about any god to be an atheist, we are all born atheists.

You’ve come to the wrong place, atheism isn;t a belief, this forum is an atheist debate forum, you are looking for a religious forum clearly.

Your posts is ample proof of this.

:rofl:
A tautologically redundant claim about brainwashing being real, Then your leap to a circular reasoning fallacy, based on a straw man fallacy about atheism, priceless.

If you mean Paley’s watchmaker argument, then no it is not, it conflates complexity with design, but we only infer design from sufficient objective evidence, that’s why Paley picked a watch, something we know is manmade and would look out of place in a natural setting, precisely because designed things don’t occur randomly in nature.

That is not an axiom all atheists would accept, let alone hold or state, though it matter not, as the burden of proof lies with the claim, and that is theism. Atheism makes no claim.

I am an atheist, since i don’t believe in any deity or deities, tell me which principle of logic I just violated please.

Another circular reasoning fallacy, so much for logic, and atheism and agnosticism is far higher among scientists than in the general populace, it rises to the vast majority among elite scientific bodies, like the National Academy of Sciences for example.

" A 1998 survey found that 93% of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) was either agnostic or atheist, with only 7% believing in a personal God."

That’s just a bizarre straw man fallacy.

It came from humans, and was designed very specifically to study and understand the physical world and universe, using methods designed to remove as much subjective bias as possible.

Straw man fallacy, sigh.

Straw man fallacy based on previous straw men fallacies, you also seem to be heading for an argumentum ad ingoranitam fallacy, based on a god of the gaps polemic.

Straw man fallacy, sigh.

Begging the question to create another circular reasoning fallacy.

Nothing in that sentence is correct, and it’s clear you have no idea what logic means, what it is designed to achieve, or how it does this.

Link one scientific fact the objectively evidences a deity, Hell it doesn’t have to be scientific even? Then explain why most elite scientists have missed this, and remain atheist and agnostics.

Circular reasoning fallacy.

In your posts, at all. Your arguments are devoid of any objective evidence, and they are relentlessly irrational. I have to go with initial instincts, you’re either a troll, or are too ill-informed for any reasonable debate to be worthwhile.

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The thundering avalanche of religious propaganda isn’t “brainwashing”. Maybe that’s because most religious brains could hardly stand a light rinse.

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Atheists are atheists for a million different reasons.

Yes true, Thank you.
My writing here is directed specifically at Atheists who believe they are logically and factually correct based upon evaluating the totality of the evidence.

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Don’t believe everything you think, because you don’t have a fucking clue. You’re way in over your head.

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This doesn’t actually make much sense and I can explain why. It is a case-by-case study. You are referencing antitheists who openly declare, there is no god, and not atheists who declare 'Your god does not exist."

The atheists who argue “Your god does not exist,” (An antithetic position.) have waited for you to identify what god you are talking about clearly. For example: If you assert your god exists beyond time and space, I will tell you that your god does not exist. Existence is temporal. A god that exists for no time and in no space is the same thing as a god that does not exist. Now, I certainly believe I am ‘logically’ and ‘factually’ correct. To demonstrate I am wrong, you need to show me something that exists outside of time and space in addition to your god. Appealing to god as some sort of unique case is a fallacy called “special pleading.” The totality of the evidence that makes your god non-existent has been evaluated.

The atheists who argue no gods exist have a burden of proof to demonstrate no gods exist. A prime example of this would be the late great Hitchens. He tended to use 'The Problem of Evil, Divine Hiddenness, and the history of the church. The man had a mind that could recall facts like an encyclopedia and I don’t know anyone who lasted toe to toe with him in a theology debate. He certainly believed he was logically and factually correct, and he demolished theists in debates. He certainly looks at the totality of historical evidence, the evil the church does and has done, the evil that God supposedly did in the bible, and the evil that god believes led to through history, and in the present.

Atheists tend to argue from a position of ‘facts’ and ‘evidence.’

Now, with that said. There are some special cases and we have seen them pop into the site. Atheists who make blind assertions and can not back their assertions with facts or evidence. These atheists, or people calling themselves atheists, do not tend to last long around here. So, I am admitting that there are atheists who argue or make assertions without facts and evidence. “All Christians are stupid. All Christians are brainwashed.” “There is nothing good about the Bible.” Usually, their arguments come in the form of sweeping generalizations. These are easy to spot and such generalizations are usually put to rest very quickly around here. Atheists are held to the same standard as theists. If you’re going to make an assertion, have the evidence ready to support that assertion. There are no free rides.

On the other side of the coin are the theists who come around thinking that they have evidence where none exists. In some cases, it is not a matter of not looking at evidence. It is a matter of the theists imagining that what they think they have is evidence when it is not. Stories in the bible are a wonderful example. All you have in the bible are stories. No first-hand accounts. No one ever met Jesus. No one knows who wrote the Gospels. Half of the books in the NT are forged. (Attributed to authors who are not the authors.) Most of the red letter text, words attributed to Jesus, did not come from Jesus. (See The Clergy Project). Jesus Seminar - Wikipedia So, the warning here is to do just a little research before making assertions. (Bart Erhaman, Who Wrote the Bible) is a wonderful source.

So, in Final Words, I won’t say your concerns are not valid in some situations. I think these situations are rare. I also think most atheists are on your side. We also hold these folks accountable for the things they say.

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So you have thrown out some bait and are now waiting for someone foolish enough to comp down on it?

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Sourcecodewizard,

I think I am part of your intended audience. But I have a few questions:

You were raised agnostic? I didn’t think that was possible. How did that work?

You were brainwashed? What did that look like from your perspective?

You think I am brainwashed? How did that happen? What should I look for to determine that is true?

Please PM me if you don’t want others to see our conversation.

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You were raised agnostic? I didn’t think that was possible. How did that work?
Yes I was raised agnostic and remained so into my mid twenties.
As a kid I basically thought that religion was a bunch of nonsense and science explained our reality.
Rather than being an atheist, however, I logically acknowledged that I could be incorrect, hence the agnosticism.

You were brainwashed? What did that look like from your perspective?
Yes, I was obviously brainwashed by the same social indoctrination that creates many atheists today.
In hindsight, it is so obvious that it is amazing I could not see it sooner. But then, it is called brainwashing for a reason. The hallmark of brainwashing is the inability to use logic and reasoning. In the case of Atheists this is typically a result of grabbing onto Axom 1 and never letting go.

You think I am brainwashed?
Any scientifically minded person who believes that the reality we can experience can possibly exist without having been designed by a designer with a high degree of intelligence is necessarily brainwashed so you can see if this applies to you or not.

How did that happen?
If you are then it likely happened through social intimidation where the so called “smart” people who are atheists mock anyone who questions their objectively, provably, nonsensical viewpoint. Having a losing logical position they resort to an entire host of non-logical, non-reasoning methods to persuade including mockery. The majority of the responses to my OP are direct evidence of their brainwashing and demonstrate the kind of nonsense that I am talking about.

Those who do attempt at using logic and reasoning are flawed in the same tired, typical manner that they always are. There is really no point in pointing out their errors, however, because they are so brainwashed that they are oblivious to reasoning. I know, because I have been doing this a long time.

What should I look for to determine that is true?
Evidence Evidence Evidence
How can I say it enough?

I point to an entire Universe of magic magnets that poofed into existence.
That is called massive evidence.

The atheists, in response, wave their hands around screaming “it doesn’t count, it doesn’t count” because pick your random nonsensical argument of the day.

So, to recap:
A Universe of magic magnets = EVIDENCE
A bunch of blowhards blowing hard = NOT EVIDENCE

See the difference?

The existence of gravity is EVIDENCE of design.
The existence of the periodic table is EVIDENCE of design.
The existence and particularly the totality of the scientific structure of the universe IS EVIDENCE of design.
More blowhards blowing hard is NOT EVIDENCE.

It’s so obvious that these people are spouting complete nonsense and that is exactly why we know that they are brainwashed.