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Debate Room
42

@Cognostic

I think that it is funny how someone can try to be a smartass, but end up making a very valid point.

We are all individuals, even the guy who thinks he isn’t. We all see things in a way unique to ourselves, even when we have similar ideologies or activities that have the potential to link groups of us together in filamentous connection.

When discussing an accepted law of physics one person can say:

And another can say:

And still another can say:

And yet another (David Hawkins, MD, Ph.D.) can say:
we have proof that emotions have measurable energy and can either foster or negate actual cell life.
(power-vs-force-the-hidden-determinants-of-human-behavior-an-anatomy-of-consciousness-authors-official-authoritative-edition/),
ative-edition/),

(If you are interested, his work demonstrates how a person’s log level–the measurable energy level in their magnetic field–increases as that person experiences more positive emotions. He discovered that cells actually died when the log level was below 200, where the emotions of scorn, hate, anxiety, shame, regret, despair, blame, and humiliation reside.)

All of these perspectives are different, and yet two or more of them can be accepted together because they
support a particular idea.

Each person has his or her perspective and each perspective provides a context for understanding a larger picture than any one person will generally entertain on one’s own.

This is how I feel about religious scriptures. Not just the Bible, but all of them.

We have an opportunity to offer each other our differing perspectives. We have an opportunity to see a bigger picture.

Some people will always see destruction, manipulation, and bloodshed.

Some won’t.

The fact that y’all crave fairness, equality, consideration,
and truth are not negatives to me. You don’t have to have the same experiences as I have. The fact that you value these qualities, means that we have commonality.

Someone who claims to follow the doctrine of Jesus, as presented in the gospels who does not seek after these things does not present a positive to me, simply because they say the name Jesus.

Titles mean very little. True motivation is what is important.

43

But you began by mentioning physics, then conflated it with human interaction. These are two very distinct and separate topics.

It is not even apples to oranges, it is more like comparing icebergs to kittens.

44

@David_Killens That is why I mentioned Dr. David Hawkins. His work demonstrates that emotion has observable energy and motion. I was presenting differing perspectives of a similar subject.

45

He was crackpot, with unaccredited degree from a “learn by mail” diploma mill. He was a practitioner of the pseudoscience of applied kinesiology.

Much of his stuff that you have repeated here is just false/lies.

46

On a side note, at the same time as this conversation was carrying on, another was being had:

This is how the two running in tandem sounded to me:

Death and sin came after the Fall, thus evolution can not exist.

Because there is sin and death in the world God cannot exist.

Here is the video I was presented with.

I found myself asking questions like:
Why is this guy arguing for theism bothering me more than people arguing against it?

The answer was that he was disingenuous. I think the speaker is a slime-ball who knows full and darn well he is manipulating people. I don’t know what his motivation is, but I know that he KNOWS what he is doing.

I don’t agree with the perspective at all. None of his theories match mine. I did however, learn something about the nature of people by watching it.

The kid that wrote me using this guy as some sort of authority was genuine, even though the speaker was not. He would teach these inaccuracies with his whole heart. This is how damage can and does happen.

It made me sad. It even made me mad watching that guy gauge what he had leeway to b.s. by the reaction of his unsuspecting audience.

But it taught me something about how we learn. How we shut off our ears and our eyes and our minds to new information when we allow it to offend whatever personal truths already reside in our hearts.

I told the kid that science does not have to conflict with scripture. But what I was saying offended the theistic picture he grew up believing as authoritative.

I told him by fighting scientific proofs that he was fighting against the answers.
He told me I was fighting against the Bible itself.

2 Likes
47

I must continue to disagree. Newton’s three laws are laws in physics.

The quack Hawkins you reference, he was indicating that a positive act towards a person can trigger emotions, which do involve brain activity and the use of energy. But at best, he is discussing a triggering action, not a physical reaction to a force being applied to it.

I suggest you educate yourself on Newton and his three laws.

48

@David_Killens[quote=“David_Killens, post:47, topic:2910”]
I suggest you educate yourself on Newton and his three laws.
[/quote]
Okay I will.

49

According to …

1 John 4:16 - We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them.

The christian god is supposed to be all-knowing and thus at the moment of creation it knew exactly how everything would play out. But this god created a world where people have suffered horribly. Just go down to a chidren’s hospital and witness innocent children dying in pain from cancer.

This is an obvious contradiction, thus the god as depicted in the bible does not exist.

I do not claim that no god exists but I do claim that the christian god as depicted in the bible does not exist.

50

@Nyarlathotep

I would however like to know how Standard constitutes as a “learn by mail diploma mill”

That is news to me.

51

Hawkins’ Ph.D wasn’t from (Stanford?) it was from Columbia Pacific University.

If you’d like to read material critical of Hawkins:
https://skepdic.com/akinesiology.html

https://realitymaps.com/2007/09-davidhawkins.html

https://www.old.quackwatch.org/13Hx/vitamin_pushers.pdf (page 249)

52

Newton was a frail man, also very absent-minded. He made his greatest accomplishments before the age of 25. At the age of 23, the bubonic plague hit England, and he retreated to his family home in Woolsthorpe, and in isolation made amazing discoveries.

@Tia_Thompson One of my main interests is astronomy, and thus it’s history. Naturally, Newton played a huge part in that discipline.

Take a coin out, give it a look. See those raised ridges around the coin? Newton invented that.

1280×720 162 KB

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53

Have you seen the movie “The Fifth Element” starring Bruce Willis and Milla Jojovich? It revolves around the concept that you combine the four elements of earth, water, air and fire, and they interact with the fifth element. That grand concept came directly out of Aristotle, who proposed that the earth and heavens were separate and operated under different rules (laws). Under Aristotle, those four elements were the basic building blocks on earth, while in the incorruptible heavens was the fifth element.

Anyheww, a tidbit to catch your attention.

Newton found glaring problems with Aristotle’s model of this universe. He is well know for sitting under a tree and “discovering” gravity. The truth is that Newton realized that the same forces that caused an apple to fall were the very same forces that kept the Moon in it’s orbit. THAT was the genius of Newton, to understand that the laws of physics were universal everywhere. There was not a set of rules for Earth, and a separate set of rules for the heavens.

Another problem Newton tackled was Aristotle’s concept of forces. He refined his results, in what we now refer to as his three laws of motion.

He got that part correct, but there was a discrepancy that Newton stated that mass, force, and acceleration had an absolute reality. This what Einstein latched onto, leading to his great discoveries.

Today we know that we can cancel out forces. Fly in this airplane, and it can cancel out the force of gravity.

3 Likes
54

Actually, science ABSOLUTELY DOES conflict with scripture. The major conflicts, just off the top of my head (in no particular order):

  • The “creation” of the universe and Earth

  • The “creation” of Man

  • Noah’s worldwide flood

  • A boat barely bigger than a football field holding two of every creature on Earth , along with a small human family, and all the food/supplies necessary to sustain them all for a full year on the water.

There are PLENTY of other examples, of course, but these few I listed are part of THE VERY FOUNDATION of biblical scripture. Thus, they are THE primary basis of the Christian faith. And science most certainly flies in the face of, and fully conflicts with, these biblical inaccuracies. Hence the reason your friend and so many other Christians get upset/offended when “science” threatens their precious belief system. Oddly enough, though, they seem to have ZERO qualms with enjoying all the benefits science and modern technology has provided for them. (i.e.: Television, computers, air travel, automobiles, etc.) Hmmm… :thinking:

(Edits for minor errors)

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55

@Tia_Thompson

Here is another source you might want to check:
Encyclopedia of American Loons: David Hawkins

56

You were the author of this phrase. Could you tell me what the word log means in this context? I’m betting you can not.

57

Anyone want a PhD? For free? In five minutes? Just go here …

Fill out a form or three and get your degree.

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58

Forget all that. PM me with $19.95 and I’ll send you a Ph.D. with high honors in any field. If you don’t want it written in crayon, send an extra $9.95.

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59

I fucking love this movie, especially the “stoning” scene.

60

Monkey with a typewriter. What in the hell do you mean 'funny." Is that funny, “Ha ha?” Or is that funny like the smell of fish after three days in the sun? Any time I make a point, it is valid. Well, most of the time my points are valid. Okay, sometimes even a blind pig finds a, … a, … a, … whatever the fuck it was looking for. I guess it’s nice to know all my university degrees were not for nothing. I always wondered if those scraps of paper were ever going to be good for anything. Wow! 10 years of my life suddenly validated. I think I will treat myself to a cookie. *** See you in three or four days.***

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61

A team of researchers has managed to (very technically) break Newton’s third law of motion — that every action has an equal and opposite reaction — by accelerating laser pulses around a loop seemingly without any corresponding push-back .

Can Newton’s third law be violated?


Image result for Spooky Action violates newton's third law

Even though it is one of the fundamental laws of physics, Newton’s third law can be violated in certain nonequilibrium (out-of-balance) situations. When two objects or particles violate the third law, they are said to have nonreciprocal interactions.

So? What miracle of the modern world do you think you can assume from such an occurrence? Drinking milk will foster or negate cell life. Taking a shit will foster or negate cell life. Breathing the smog in LA will foster or negate cell life? Is there a point to any of this?

David R. Hawkins, MD., Phd., a widely known authority within the fields of consciousness reearch and spirituality ***This says it all. The man is probably a quack. Let’s see how he defines 'spirituality." ***

“Spirituality is actually the realization that one’s reality is beyond the physical. There comes to be an overwhelming awareness of the infinite Presence of God.”

So he defines spirituality as nothing more than ‘thinking’ you are spiritual and “thinking” there is an infinite presence of god. (A brain state.) I promise you that he has absolutely no evidence what do ever for this stupidity. NONE.

*** "Dr. Hawkins discusses the various ways to open ourselves to this awareness, with a specific prayer we can use and a certain way to view the world. “Everything is done in the conscious awareness of the Presence of God”.***

This is exactly how cults of self-delusion are formed. Believe first, and then seek the evidence for your belief.

DEMONSTRATE ANYTHING AT ALL THAT IS ‘SPIRITUAL’ THAT OCCURS OUTSIDE OF A ‘BRAIN STATE.’ What evidence do you have for ‘spiritual’ aside from your own acceptance, blind assertion, and thinking process?

1 Like