That’s nice. Any comment about the bible’s position that god (and therefore Jesus for many people) is the creator of all evil? Making Jesus arguably the worst person in history (at least according to your holy book)? It’s also my guess that mass producing evil like that would make Jesus a contender for the worst violator of the golden rule.
2 Likes
@Nyarlathotep [quote=“Nyarlathotep, post:21, topic:2910”]
Any comment about the bible’s position that god (and therefore Jesus for many people) is the creator of all evil? Making Jesus arguably the worst person in history (at least according to your holy book)? It’s also my guess that mass producing evil like that would make Jesus a contender for the worst violator of the golden rule.
[/quote]
I thought I had:
For what it is worth: action has a special meaning in physics. It is a numerical quantity that has the dimension of mass * length(^2) * time(^-1), often measured in Joule-seconds. You shouldn’t apply this law to objects such as “love”, “joy”, “suffering” unless they can also be expressed in the same dimension; and presumably they can’t.
1 Like
Interesting topic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Having read through the thread, though, there seems to be a point you are missing that others are attempting to help you see. Hopefully I can clarify it a bit…
Yes, there are passages in the bible that encourage love and caring and mercy and hope. And, yes, there are those individuals and groups that choose to follow those “teachings.” And, typically, those individuals/groups tend to turn a blind eye to the majority of the bible that promotes/condones violence and other atrocities against fellow humans. At the exact same time, there are those who use those “less-than-friendly” passages of “God’s Word” to promote/justify their own acts of violence against others who do not agree with their particular beliefs. That, of course, is no big secret, as the several thousand different Christian sects make it obvious that EVERYBODY interprets God’s “Perfect Book” differently. Therein lies the VERY FOUNDATION of the problem MOST Christians prefer to avoid addressing, and that you also seem to be missing. Maybe this will help you see it…
According to the bible and what I was taught, the God of the bible made EVERYTHING (including EVIL). Moreover, this same God is PERFECT. It NEVER makes mistakes. It has a Perfect Plan that cannot be changed. Beyond that, God is All-knowing and All-powerful. It knows EVERYTHING (past/present/future). It can do ANYTHING. Therefore, this God has known since BEFORE the beginning of time EXACTLY how EVERYTHING will happen in our world, because IT PLANNED IT FROM THE BEGINNING. Meaning, it purposely created evil KNOWING the pain and suffering it would cause to untold numbers of its precious human pets over countless centuries. In other words, it is silly, ridiculous, and meaningless for Christians to place blame on individual humans for the atrocious acts they might do, BECAUSE (according to their own bible/faith) THEIR GOD is the one who is the root cause of those acts and is thus ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE for them. So, no matter how many Stalins there are. No matter how many Hitlers may come along. No matter how many Ted Bundys plague this Earth. The God of the bible is SOLELY responsible for every “evil” act they commit. How could anybody ever praise something like that as being good?
Sure, all the little touchy-feely goody-good happy parts scattered sparsely throughout the bible do indeed give some folks comfort and hope. And good for them if that is what helps them cope with Life. However, based on history and a bit of my own personal experience, that very same bible has been responsible for WAAAAY more pain and suffering than any comfort or joy.
3 Likes
@Tin-Man Hey! How are you?
I’m not sure exactly how to address this. Perhaps, the disconnect lays in the fact that I am not, “most Christians”. Most Christians find my approach to Christianity a little unsettling (that is my perception, at any rate)
As I said, I wasn’t born into a religious sect. I separated myself from the whole lot of it until I was well grown and chose to revisit the subject.
So, realizing my own inability to accurately present you with my experience, I’ll give you an example of how I feel to the best of my ability:
I read Catcher in the Rye when I was younger. I read it because of Mark David Chapman. I read it because of how it made someone feel. I wanted to know what it felt like to feel that way… But when I read it I didn’t feel that way at all. I felt something else entirely.
I am something akin to sorrowful for the misdeeds of sad, twisted, and misguided individuals, especially when they bleed their damage onto others, causing pain, or pushing oppression and violence–but I can’t take responsibility for any of those people or their actions anymore than I can reasonably take responsibility for the death of John Lennon.
I won’t try to take away y’all’s opinions. They are yours to do with as you please.
I will only share mine, when you’ll have them.
I’ve learned a lot here.
We all have something to offer each other. I’m not always sure what that is, but I have found it to be true in my life.
I don’t have to agree with you to learn from you.
The same goes for you as far as I am concerned.
You have gotten some great answers. Answers very much like the thoughts and education I received, which lead me to believe it’s all a mythology. It was used by the Romans to continue their dominance over Europe and middle east far longer than their short swords did. Its influence continues because it has had nearly two millennia for people to use it to influence events and collect taxes, which morphed into tithe.
Keep reading, these rational thinkers will influence you. And perhaps you will understand how river erosion works, something I learned in 8th grade, and you will understand the bible is just a book, a book a lot more self contradictory than the “Iliad & the Odyssey”.
Oh, just hanging in there like a hair in a biscuit. Last couple of weeks or so have been hectic (understatement), with our usual routine having been completely derailed. Doing fine overall. Just been discombobulated for a few days. Should level back out soon.
Please keep in mind when I say “most Christians”, I am using that rather loosely for lack of a better term. Basically, at any given time, there is a group of Christians belonging to a particular sect that consider most all the other Christian sects as not being True Christians. And the fact you claim yourself that you are “not most Christians” indicates you set yourself apart from those who do not interpret the bible the same as you do. Granted, you may not hold any animosity toward those other groups, but rest assured there ARE those Christians who have animosity toward you simply because you “stray from” and “challenge” their own beliefs. (But you probably know that already.) Point being, it is the bible (THE Perfect Words of God) that has caused all those divisions, and all the different sects pointing at each other and insisting the other sects are “not True Christians.”
Fully agree. It would be ridiculous for you to take responsibility for such things. But, again, you seem to be missing the point. As I said, IF the God in the bible actually exists, then THE GOD OF THE BIBLE is the one who is SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for all the evil IT CREATED in the world. And it DOES NOT MATTER which Christian sect doctrine you may or may not follow. If a person and/or group believes the bible is THE PERFECT WORDS OF GOD, then how they interpret it individually or as a group is IRRELEVANT. Because each group is choosing whatever parts (good or bad) of that book which suits their own needs and/or agenda (whether they admit it or not), while conveniently ignoring and/or “explaining away” the parts that do not suit them. The bottom line, though, is that the GOD OF THE BIBLE (according to its OWN proclamations) is THE Being ULTIMATELY responsible for EVERYTHING. That includes all the pain, suffering, and all other atrocities committed since the moment Man started roaming the Earth. And that God (being ALL-POWERFUL) could have prevented ALL OF THAT if it had wanted to. Yet we STILL have child rapists and other such parasites freely spreading their insidious pain and torture unchecked. WHY would anybody with any amount of common decency praise such an entity? So, again, as somebody else has already asked, how do you reconsile following such a horrendous being?
1 Like
Tia. What should the reaction be to a person sitting in a room watching a lady get beaten and raped? A person who is strong, capable, and has within him the power to stop the rape? However, instead of stopping the rape, he just sits there and watches. What is the reaction?
What is the reaction to a hospital that has the cure for cancer? A hospital that has the doctors, the treatment machines, and the after-care facilities, to remove a life-threatening cancerous cyst from a child’s lung, brain, or heart. What is your reaction to the hospital that refuses to do the surgery and save the child unless you come up with a million dollars? What is your reaction to that hospital?
What is your reaction to the pedestrian who looks down the street and sees a speeding car approaching? He also sees the young man next to him looking at his I-phone and not paying attention. He sees the car coming. He sees the young man on his I-phone step into the street and even notices the air-pods in the boy’s ears. Car, boy, car, boy, SMACK! And the bystander never lifted a finger to help or to warn the young man. What is your reaction to that bystander?
Three simple questions Tia. If you answer one of them wrong, I have built a torture chamber in the basement of my house and I will hunt you down, chain you to the wall, and torture you for the rest of your existence on this earth. What is your honest reaction to such a threat? Does it change if I say “I love you.”?
There is something fundamentally wrong with your thinking.
4 Likes
… whooosssshhhhhhing sound as Tim’s point flys over head. splat against wall.
2 Likes
Oh, good. I’m not the only one who noticed that.
1 Like
Something just dawned on me a little while ago. If you think about it, ANY Christian ANYWHERE is not like “most Christians”. 
2 Likes
@Tin-Man I typically avoid generalizations, and I realized that I fell into one with “most Christians”. I do not even know “most Christians”. I am trying to find the right words. They are there, but I have to find them amidst a full life and young children. Apologies on the delay.
1 Like
No need to apologize. I have only ONE little tyke to keep part time during the week, and THAT ALONE has been enough to keep me and the wife fully thrown “off schedule” and distracted most of the time. (Wouldn’t trade it for anything, though. The little guy is amazing. 
) Anyway, family life takes priority. Don’t be sorry for responsibly handling your business. We ain’t going anywhere here.
1 Like
Come on, … Who didn’t see this coming?
4 Likes
Oh, almost forgot. In the interest of fair play, you should know we are still gonna talk about you behind your back right in front of you. Just Standard Operating Procedures around here.
2 Likes
Not to worry Tia, Tinny does that shit to everyone. We have warned him about it over and over but he has so many rotted circuts from eggnot poisoning that there is no hope for the poor sod. The engineers tell us that he is not long for this world, but don’t let him know that. He thinks he is getting better. HA HA HA HA … I have already put dibs on all the parts I need to make a fantastic toaster oven. Just remember it’s a public forum so if you want to say anything personal about someone, you can always use the PM function.
1 Like
Pay no attention to Cog’s poo slinging. Typically I purposely coax him into doing it because my wife uses it as fertilizer for our gardens. (But don’t tell him that, or he might refuse to put out… 
… (Umm, bad choice of words.) Well, anyway, aside from finding a couple of corroded circuits that were easily replaced, my mechanic said my recent diagnostic scan came back fine. Cog is just trying to get me worked up because he’s been eyeballing my new power converter ever since I installed it… (whispering)… he thinks I don’t know about his little toaster oven project… shhhh… 
Anyway, pay no nevermind to Mr. Banana Breath. Chances are he was toasted on the eggnog he swindled from my holiday reserve when he wrote that. And considering it was an extra-strong batch, welllllll…
1 Like
he he he … You see, Tin actually fell for it. He believes I am making a toaster oven. Shhh. It’s actually a time machine. And the only reason Tinny is alive today is because I used the prototype to go back in time and cure his aluminum ass. He already died, I already got the parts, I already made the time machine, and I already went back in time and cured the ungrateful bastard. He’s just so stupid, (I would never say that in an open forum.) If he had a frigging clue about the world arond him, he would blow another circut. All this shit has already happened. It’s been dead, done, and gone for over two hours now… (in your time). Tin is so lucky to have a good friend like me.
1 Like