I’ve been thinking lately. Before I’ve always wanted to end religion. But now I’m starting to see why people need it. I think they need that control. Without it, they’re fucking savages. I’m starting to think the crazies and the mentally ill need an imaginary friend to be frightened of so they don’t go next door and rape and kill.
Is Christianity the real reason why my neighbor hasn’t come over and tried to murder me yet?
This started to make me really really think when I’ve had two different Christians claim a few years ago that without their religion they would murder and commit robbery. That really makes me wonder that if Christians realized their religion was fake, would we be looking at a serious problem? Would crime really be up? Would these douche bags really be out there acting immorally and murdering and raping because their god delusions have been lifted?
First things first, if they are stating things like they would commit murder or rape, I would assume they are full of it. I’d call that bluff, that’s basically argumentum ad baculum. Threatening yourself into your religion by making statements like that is just ridiculous. Also trying to persuade others to join you or accept your stance by threats of violence isn’t acceptable.
Because god isn’t real you would throw away your family, relationships, your job, your cars, your comfortable life to spend it dead or in a jail cell? Bunk bunk bunk.
Also if that is their argument, tell them to prove it then. That which is stated with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence. It’s a powerless person trying to exert some form of power by claiming they have some unseen power lying in wait.
Don’t be threatened into accepting them, because they might do “something”.
Personally, I’m anxiously awaiting the day I encounter somebody like that in real life. I’ll be tickled silly. Here’s why…
As usual, my first step is to establish what they believe about their god. (Omnipotent, Omniscient, All-Loving, etc.) Specifically, in this case, I want to make sure they believe their god knows exactly what they feel/think at any given time. Moreover, I want to establish if they believe their god judges them by their heart/thoughts/intentions. (See where I’m going here?.. wink-wink…) Once these parameters are dialed in and the target is locked, it’s time to drop the bomb. “Well, since you openly admit you are truly a vial and evil person at your core, then your god already knows this, and very likely it already has your spot reserved in hell. Have a nice day. ”
It was just disturbing and it really bothers me still that it was said. I was talking to them about my stance as an Atheist and how I thought religion caused problems and suddenly they were like “well if my gods not real, I’m going to go kill my neighbor and rob banks & really live it up har har har!”, and they just walked away after that remark. The way it was said was just really disturbing to me. It caught me off guard. I wasn’t expecting anyone to talk about being that immoral. I don’t think it was an “Atheists are immoral” stereotype. I think it was really about them wanting to commit these crimes “if” they were 100% certain their god wasn’t real.
If their religion is the only thing keeping them from murdering me in cold blood, by all means keep practicing that religion. Perhaps I’m mistaken and they need that control. I’m in no way buying that I agree with the superstitions of Christianity. It just makes me view it that much more negatively. But if their personal fear from those beliefs keeps them from harming an innocent person…
Not, it isn’t. It’s the fact that we’re a social species that has to live with others that would prevent your neighbor from coming over and murdering you. It has nothing to do with religion. The claim that everyone would pillage, rape, and murder without religion is a strawman.
Need? No they don’t NEED it. Does an alcoholic need alcohol to live? No, they don’t want you to steal their nice comfy blankie so they threaten you with violence. Because they’re infantile losers, cry, get angry, or poop their pants are their only “logical” options. Fuck that, I would gladly tell them where to stick it.
The irony is that THEY do not consider themselves immoral by saying that. In their own minds, they still “own the moral high ground” because they believe in a god and obey a god that helps keep their repugnant asses in check. Personally, I wouldn’t let their nonsense bother me too much. No way to even attempt to reason with people of that mindset. Although I would probably encourage them to maintain their faith whenever I had the opportunity.
Obviously they’re wrong. I don’t have a religion and I’m an Atheist and I don’t get off on hurting other people. I think I was more or less basing my question on the already immoral Christians whom I’ve spoken with in passing if they were to go without their beliefs.
Heeeey… You may be onto something here… … Let’s seeee… … Ah-ha! Yes! Got it! How about this…?
…(slobbering drunk slurring… holding guy’s shoulder to maintain balance… leaning in close to his ear)… Lishun… No-no-no-wait-wait-wait… Jess lishuntahmae a sek- hiccup - a sekun- hiccup - a sekund… burrrrrp… Lookie… Yuse need Jeeshus… Yuse NEEEED ‘im… hiccup… An-an-an-an yanowutelsh?.. burp-hiccup… Yuseshuhd ashkda Lor- burrrrrp - ashkda Lor- hiccup - da LORD ta fergiv allllllhiccuplllllll yer, all-yer, all-yer shinns… burrrrrp-hic… Prayshe da Lor- hic - da Lor- hic - da LORD!.. burrrrrrrp… (starting to sob)…I jessh doanwanna… (pulling him into a hug)… I jessh doanwanna sheeya bein’ all chrishpy-friden hellllll… (sobbing uncontrollably… blowing nose on jacket collar)…
Hey, if THAT doesn’t bring somebody closer to God, I don’t know what will.
In response to “Would we be worse off without religion?” “No.” More than likely, very similar. I don’t think religion is the problem. Religion is the “Result.” If we did not buy into magical thinking and religious ideology it would be something else; Marxism, Socialism, Communism. There would be some magical belief system put in place that the ignorant could rely on for answers. And those that opposed the system would, of course, be banished to concentration camps or put to death. This is human nature.
Look at small ancient tribal communities. They make up their rules, invent their superstitions, and create their gods (which are different gods from the gods of the neighboring tribes.) Each tribe has its own rituals, taboos, and ritualized punishments for violating those taboos. (Not a lot different from many countries in the world today.)
Interestingly, there are documented cases of Atheist tribal communities. Unfortunately for us, these communities did not flourish.
In my personal opinion, religion is not the enemy, but rather, our own minds, our own gullibility, and our own willingness to accept magical thinking as an appropriate response to those things about which we know very little.
So, would a world be worse without religion? It would be the same. The reason it would be the same is that by doing away with religion you are only addressing the symptom and not the cause.
This is why I continually make the assertion; ‘Knowledge is the bane of religion.’ Knowledge may not be perfect as we are still very delusionally oriented beings, but it is the best weapon we have against the spread of myth and falshoods masquerading as that which is real. (That which is real is independently verifiable, measurable, and produces effects that are observable.)
I don’t think religion in itself is necessary. I am living in a “Shame Culture.” You are living in a 'Blame Culture." The things that keep us from doing horrible acts are quite different and yet both cultures survive with rules of behavior, manners and morals.
In a ‘shame culture,’ There is a high emphasis on preserving honour and on not being publicly disgraced’ The root of this is founded in Confucianism. (Now here is an Atheistic Belief System.) Similar to Buddhism, Confucianism postulates no specific dieties. It is a system, as atheistic as any, that stresses ‘Social Order.’ A place for everyone and everyone in their place. Instead of the individual, it stresses ‘social roles.’ When everyone does their job in the social order, harmony is achieved and society moves forward.
Just as Christianity is at the core of Western Civilization, Confucianism is at the core of civilizations in the east. Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism, all thrived alongside theistic beliefs because they are atheistic at their core and have nothing at all to say about God or gods. Now, with that said, Confucius and the Buddha have both been divinified and worshiped as ‘spirits’ or ‘god-like’ entities by those who distorted the philosophies into religions. (Again I reference the human psyche and its need to engage in magical thinking and create gods where none exist.)
I’ve probably said enough at this point. I’ll just end here.
Lastly; this is not the case. Society has its checks and balances. Christian or not, to progress and move forward, all societies have set boundaries of appropriate and inappropriate behaviors. Anyone with the belief that they would be murdering were it not for their religion would soon find themselves behind bars; banished; or killed.
Keep in mind, the Christians themselves cherry pick their way through their religious text. They no longer kill people for working on the sabbath. They no longer kill unruly children by taking them to the edge of town and stoning them to death. They no longer kill homosexuals (Unless they live in Africa). They no longer kill witches (Unless they live in Africa.) They no longer practice banishing (Unless they are Quaker, Mormon, Mennonite, or some other obscure sect.) For the most part, secularists have dragged religion, kicking, and screaming, into the 21st century. Hopefully, we have the strength and resources to continue dragging them out of the dark and exposing them to the light of day.
Ok now I think things have really gotten overblown on here…and I am misunderstood. I think without religion it is freedom to choose your own moral code not based on religion or the laws of the country. What do I mean by that? Examples:
Ok in religion and the laws of the country doing drugs can be seen as immoral and breaking the law. My moral code is I am an athiest who feels drugs should be legalized so I have no problem breaking the law by doing drugs. So I make up my own moral code it is ok to do drugs even if im breaking the law because I disagree with the law.
I think prostitution should be legalized. It is in other countries after all. I see nothing wrong with it as long a woman isn’t be forced into it. A lot of free agents out. So it is considered in religion as immoral and in society as breaking the law, but I hire prostitutes(escorts) anyway because I think it should be legalized and according to my own moral code see nothing wrong with it.
Sometimes in the long run you do good by harming others:
A) A bully at a school needs to be helped by being harmed and taught a lesson. Beating the bully up will do him good in the long run because your teaching him a lesson.
B) Killing someone is considered harming them and evil in religions and against the law in countries… but what about a doctor doing a mercy killing for a cancer victim in so much pain he doesn’t want to live. He begs for an end to his suffering so the doctor takes him out of his misery and kills him. The doctor is doing good by harming another…in the long run the dying man with cancer will be better off his suffering will end. Mercy killings by doctors often seen as evil in religon and against the law I see as morally good and act of kindness.
c) Killing someone because they suffer from severe depression and no longer wish to live… is this wrong? If someone truly wants to die is it wrong for him to be able to go to a clinic where he signs a paper and a doctor administers the fatal shot? Often seen as morally wrong in religion and against the law… I see as good an act of mercy and you are doing good in the long run by harming another.
d) Is suicide morally wrong? I don’t think so. Many religions say people will go to hell for committing murder against themselves. I think people should have the right to choose when they want to live and when they want to die. Religion makes people die by suffering an agonizing death, if you take the easy way out and commit suicide your going to burn in hell. Religion says people who commit suicide are bad awful people, I don’t think so.
It is considered in some religions as morally wrong and considered a crime in some countries to have more than one wife…while in others its perfectly acceptable. I honestly see nothing wrong with it. I don’t see anything wrong with married to multiple partners or open marriages.
Marrying a 15-16 year old girl some would say is immoral and against the law without parents consent…but in the south many years ago it was common for girls to marry young… things have changed and this seems by in religion and in laws as wrong. It can be legal but the girl has to go through all this parent consent nonsense. One of my favorite songs is “Into the Night” by Benny Mardones.
It is seen as murder in religion and against the law in some places for a pregnant woman to have an abortion. I honestly see nothing wrong with it, a woman should have the right to choose. According to my own morals I see abortion as morally good. If it is against the law where a woman wants it, I see nothing wrong with someone breaking the law anyway because I disagree with the law.
This is what I mean by I do not have religion or the laws of the country choose my morals. I make my own moral code. If I don’t agree with the laws of country on some things I break them.