Why you shouldn’t call yourself an Atheist, and probably aren’t one

Debate Room
21

Probably this was because that was your assertion, and he doesn’t agree with it, I certaintly don’t.

Personally I don’t go around calling myself anything, unless I feel it’s apropos, but I am demonstrably an atheist, though not just an atheist obviously, it doesnt define who I am, and the only thing anyone can infer from that fact alone, doesn’t raise theistic beliefs above any other beliefs, it’s simply one type of religious belief I do not hold, among many.

As a result of me calling myself an atheist? You will have to join the dots for me there, as I’m not seeing any connection.

What beliefs? Atheism is not a belief, your thread title only comments on theistic belief, and I don’t hold any.

About what, and why do you think I should change my mind about it?

Well this is an assumption of course, but why on earth would I invest belief in an irrational understanding of the world? Basing beliefs on rational understanding, seems a far more reasonable idea than the alternative, to me anyway.

Atheism is not a belief, and why would I care if my atheism is of use to anyone else? That doesn’t seem like a sound basis for disbelief to me.

I haven’t taken on that title, it is simply a statement of fact about me, that I don’t believe in any deity or deities.

Nice double negative, but also a risible sweeping generalisation.

Those are not two distinct groups, nor are they in any way mutually exclusive. The more you post, the more you are misrepresenting what atheism means.

Only you have asserted this, no one else.

Your, is a possessive pronoun, you’re is an abreviation of you are, and it was your assertion, and not anyone else’s, this is also starting to look a little like trolling now.

By gad sir, I like the cut of your gib.

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You just defined your atheism as simply a result of your rational skepticism and did not directly address the example conversation.

I love how the retreat here is to nihilism.

Which if we’re being honest would really broach no reply.

If not, all of my points about Rationalists with chips on their shoulders still hold.

And the blather about indifference to political and social coalition building??

If you’re eye pokers and nihilistic just say it!

If you care for reason then pick a proper title.

I thought better of you folks.

You of all people should be ashamed for not reconsidering your personal beliefs.

What good is propounding the importance of changing one’s mind, for issues of facts and reasoning, if you’re not the first to do it?

Titles and identity matter. If you don’t think it does you don’t understand the sciences you’ve been ignoring and the people you, HERE, are attempting to make a point of communicating with.

Tell me more about your indifference, vociferously tell me how you don’t care, :joy::joy::joy:

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@LeroyMustang, did you ever answer my question, “… just what single word would you suggest I use to indicate that I have no gods?”

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This is a lot of word salad, putting words in my mouth, issuing ad hominems, and, essentially engaging in a Gish Gallop.

I said nothing about “political and social coalition building”. That is your fixation, not mine.

Do you have the vaguest idea what nihilism is, and isn’t? Nah, probably not.

I have spent decades considering and refining my belief positions. I have nothing to be “ashamed” of. I have changed my mind countless times, and doubtless will in the future as new information and understanding comes into play. But not because of some Shibboleth you trot out for me to conform to.

I have not “propounded the importance of changing one’s mind”. One doesn’t change one’s views just for the heck of it. I have simply stated the reasons I have for my views and why I am unpersuaded by alternative views. You can take it or leave it.

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

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25

Ironic that you, a Christian who believes in religious theory, to bring up science in a debate to not only push but make a sad attempt at manipulating a bs point. With that said and dismissing your entire argument, You’re doing what most Christian ministers do to others. Manipulating people into converting to validate your god beliefs that are blatant lies.

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Why does it matter to you why someone disbelieves in all the deities you do, plus one more?

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence that the existence of life has any overarching objective meaning, beyond the subjective meaning we all attach to it, or demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity, or that a deity is even possible? If not, then I must remain an atheist, no matter how much the term seems to annoy some of the credulous.

It’s your claim, you need to offer something beyond strident bluster and trolling, or people will simply point and laugh. Do you imagine you’re the first theist to get his panties bunched that there are atheists, and that they are happy to say so publicly.

Atheism is not a belief, if you can’t learn this most basic fact, then valuable discourse is beyond you, trolling is all we can expect.

Which belief, and why are you suggesting anyone here holds it, and why should they change their minds about that? Is it a secret?

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whatever answer you get, wait 10 years and they will be telling us not to use that word either

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The censorship is strong with @LeroyMustang. A true Christian that one. Hopefully in 10 years Christianity will lose most of it’s members. Nothing would please me more.

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30

I don’t believe that atheism automatically equates to nihilism, as I think this is a straw man argument.

Atheism can be a joyous celebration of life.

If there is no afterlife, then we must make the most of the life we have now.

And even if there is no Paradise (or hell) when we die, we still–in a manner of speaking–survive our deaths.

As a nurse and paramedic, I have saved peoples’ lives, I have helped women give birth on the side of the road, and I have participated in organ transplants.

These are all things that will influence the future in positive ways even after I die, so how is this nihilism?

Also, if I became very pious and ended up in paradise after I die, then my only purpose for all of eternity is to praise God . . . so my eternal existence in the afterlife serves no other purpose than to satisfy the narcisism of an infinitely old and infinitely powerful being . . . which seems–at least to me–to be much closer to nihilism than living my best life and doing as much good (as I define “good”) for its own sake as I can . . . which is being a registered nurse.

How is atheisim automatically nihilistic when we consider these points?

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Indeed, one of the points I made above, is that choosing not to be deluded by mythological assertions is a positive choice, and therefore the very antithesis of nihilism.

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I agree with you. 20 characters.

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33

Atheists used to be Christians. Romans coined the word and it referred to those who didn’t believe in the Roman Pantheon. Later Christians used it fort Pagans who represented anyone not a Christian. Ironic right.

Language is fluid and evolving. Today it means unbeliever in any god. I don’t believe in leprechauns either but since that puts me in the majority we don’t need a label for that view point.

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34

With who’s argument are you contending? That’s not my argument.

I shouldn’t need to police the straw men of my arguments.

But it looks like, in this case atheist does not in fact = reason

But for a moment let’s consider the alternative titles.

“Atheist” addresses western religion and your Christian friends WILL understand. Because it bows to the viewpoint and dictations of Western culture. It would not however have much to do with your beliefs if addressing an atheistic Buddhist, or atheistic Hindu, an animist of the many types, or someone who participates in ancestor worship. To all of these people you’re talking in western or essentially Christian lingo.

If you’re “not religious” when asked, then everyone understands. It’s inclusive of the fact that not everyone believes in gods.

In fact, because of the state of identity politics in the USA I’m inclined to say “non religious” BECAUSE of all of the identity politics. In the south it’s coded to say you’re Christian. And it would be dumb for me not to understand the consequences of my given identity.

Identity matters, and I’m politely asking you not to exclude the REST OF THE WORLD. By giving deference to western beliefs.

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who told you that it did, and why did you believe them?

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36

Hi! I call myself a Raelian not just a atheist and besides atheism goes along with what the prophet Rael teaches.

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Exactly, and this is my point. If you proffer a title let it be a useful one, not one simply born as ONE of the consequences of what you really espouse. I can’t tell you what to call yourself, but do better than “what you’re not”.

Rationalist
Humanist
Materialist

Idk, what do you believe?

And if the point isn’t your REASONING what exactly is the point of THIS then?

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Y’all getting it yet? The Raelian does.

I’m a Rational Skeptic, let’s say a Rationalist. I’m technically a Christian, but that doesn’t say a lot about my true stances.

The better title is Rationalist. Identity politics not needed, Christian or Christian(atheist).

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It appears to me @LeroyMustang is confused about what an atheist is and why the term exists. It is not the result of western religions. It’s the result of theistic religions. There are some eastern religions that posit a deity - Hinduism come to mind. And there are western religions that do not - Wicca comes to mind.

Atheism is about the existence of a deity and is a direct result of those religions that try to force their beliefs on everyone else. It is not about a philosophical position. It is not about the religion itself and the intolerance to the opposing idea.

So Atheists come in a variety of philosophical flavors and colors. There isn’t a single term that describes the position better. Not rationalist - although many of us are. Not naturalist - although many of us are.

And this website is about the lack of belief in a deity, not about how we got there. The fact that the language is English means that many of us come from cultures dominated by Christianity, so naturally this religion comes up a lot in our discussions here. The reason we don’t talk much about ancestor worship is that it is not part of who we are and the label doesn’t attract ancestor worshipers for us to debate with. The fact that we are debating with you is because you were attracted by the website name and have an agenda.

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40

To which facet of reality or life do you refer when you wish us to communicate a belief? Are you wishing others to list every single one of their beliefs here?

Are you wanting atheists to announce what belief they would put in place of a god since they don’t believe in any gods?

To what end do you desire beliefs to be listed here? To simply say, “I told you so” in regard to god beliefs, or beliefs about anything supernatural perhaps?

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No, atheist is a word that describes anyone who holds no belief in any deity or deities. That this simple fact triggers your prejudice is irrelevant.

Nonsense, you are simply wrong.

Atheism isn’t a belief, it is the lack or absense of belief in any deity or deities, what it does not address obviously, has no relevance to its meaning, your argument is asinine.

Irrelevant to the definition of atheism.

Indeed, and those who do not are called atheists, irrespective of any other beliefs they may or may not hold.

You’re wrong, as that’s not what atheism means.

Then get it fucking right, as your sophistry is risible.

I am an atheist, get over it, and if you want to know anything beyond that ask specific questions, the theistic penchant to preach at atheists is tedious.

About what?

Of what, you are not making sense. This is adebate forum, what do you want to debate?

The dictionary defines words through common usage, get over it…

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