Problem is you seem to think people will not cancel others based on religion, differences in worldview. This is known among christians that people cancel you for being christian, regardless if you have facts, or truth is with you.
Yep. The Bible is a collection of stories. Itâs made out of paper and filled with delusional insights of the religious Iron Age thinkers of our past. It is just as real as a Spider-Man Comic Book. You are 100% correct. The comic book takes place in a real city, with real places, and even some names of real people and real events. That does not mean we should assume Spider-man is real. Not the one in the comic book anyway. There are real Spider-men who do very real things.
So you separate the myth from the facts. I have better things to do. When you can demonstrate the existence of the main character, that Jesus guy, let me know. A historical fairy tale set in a real world setting is still a fairy tale. The assertion that âThe Bibleâ is real is moronic. Even if you only reference the New Testament, you are not referencing a single book. You are talking about 33 different books. Written by men, authors mostly unknown, with no original manuscript. The books were written over a period of 1000 years with edits, additions and commissions. It is full of plagiarized stories from other religions. Dionysus changed water to wine at all of his temples long before Jesus ever arrived on the scene. Orion was walking on water, and a part of Greek and Roman mythology before Jesus ever took to the feat. Noahâs boat was first built by Utnapishtim in The Epic of Gilgamesh. The story, later stolen by the Jews and put into your Bible.
In the end. Yes, we are in agreement, your bible is real. Itâs the content that is silly. And silly to the point of causing people to do crazy shit in the name of religion.
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That you are relentlessly dishonest, and pretend to respond while not addressing what was posted at all. You made a claim, now answer the question please, as preaching in the debate forum is against the forumâs guidelines.
If as you claimed the human genome is evidence for a creator deity, why is atheism almost universal among elite biologists, the demographic best placed to understand what that evidence does and does not mean? NB This is not a question about your subjective take on your imaginary persecution complex. It is solely about your UNEVIDENCED claim being refuted by the objective evidence.
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Correction, we recognise that some of the assertions contained in your goat herder mythology are untestable even in principle. Direct test of the assertion that your cartoon magic man exists is not only rendered impossible by other assertions in your goat herder mythology, to the effect that said entity will actively thwart any attempts at testing thereof, but even some of your fellow mythology fanboys assert that your cartoon magic man is beyond the remit of any reliable test of the sort conducted routinely by scientists.
On the other hand, other assertions contained in your goat herder mythology, particularly assertions about the natural world and its operation, ARE testable, but sadly for mythology fanboys, those assertions have already been tested and found not merely to be false, but fatuous and absurd. The entire crock of shit that is Genesis has been flushed down the toilet hard by scientific discoveries, and only swivel-eyed loons and meth heads think otherwise.
Perhaps the most comical example being the hilarious (and cretinous) assertion therein, about genetics being purportedly controlled by coloured sticks. This assertion was found to be a risible lie by a 19th century monk, whose landmark scientific research not only taught us how genetics actually operates, but laid the foundations of modern genetics as a properly constituted scientific discipline.
Apparently your cartoon magic man, if it ever existed, was not only too stupid to present basic biological facts correctly, but was also insufficiently âomniscientâ to foresee the emergence of said 19th century monk and his diligent scientific experiments.
Indeed, your goat herder mythology contains assertions about elementary facts, that are so hilariously and badly wrong, only complete idiots could treat this collection of fairy tales as being something other than bad fiction.
The testable assertions from your sad little goat herder mythology have all been fed into the shredder and reduced to their constituent quarks, and whatâs left is a feculent mix of untestable fantasies and noxious fictional accounts that no sane person would wish to be real. Such as that hideous instance of the pursuit of genocidal Lebensraum wars in Numbers 31:18, involving kidnapping underage girls as rape slaves after their parents were butchered.
The trouble with Abrahamic death cult followers is that theyâve become so hypnotised by the music of the spheres of this turgid mythological diarrhoea, that theyâre not merely incapable of realising how verminous and pestilential much of the contents thereof are in the eyes of sane people, but also rejoice in much of the hideousness thereof.
Indeed, finding ways of conjuring sadistically judgmental apologetic fabrications as a faux âjustificationâ of the atrocities littering this mythology, has become something of a combination of credential parading and ideological purity test among the more florid death cult devotees.
But is anyone here surprised to see a mythology fanboy miss the point by several light years yet again?
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Should we really be surprised this has gone unanswered for 10 months?
Note this only answer offered a circular reasoning fallacy, where @WhoAreYou simply assumed his conclusion in his opening premise.
When asked to support this claim he simply offered another subjective claim, that the human genome evidenced a deity. He has failed to offer any objective evidence to support this of course, and I have repeatedly asked why if this were true is atheism almost universal among elite biologists, surely best placed to understand the human genome, all he has offered is evasion and deflection for almost a year. I suspect that wonât be changing as well, and can only infer has just the bare unevidenced claim.
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Some of itâs claims are of course, and have been thoroughly debunked. The Noah flood myth for example, the geological record demonstrates unequivocally that no global flood has ever occurred. The Genesis creation myth is full of erroneous claims, the objective evidence shows that the basic chronology is incorrect, and it is an objective fact that humans like all living things evolved slowly over billions of years, modern humans emerging a mere 2k to 3k years ago. The Exodus myth has been thoroughly debunked after decades of research by expert archeologists who were trying to evidence it. So yes, some of the bibleâs claims can be tested.
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Why were there guards at Christâs tomb?
Where is Christâs body?
Christâs crucifixion was written about by four authors now whose work is canonized. Additionally, Josephus as well as Tacitus write about Christ being crucified under Pilate.
Moreover, one of those four authors was a great historian, Luke. He wrote both Luke and Acts. These two books were highly acclaimed for their level of historical accuracy by an individual, Sir William Mitchell Ramsay, who when he first began research was not convinced of the reliability of the New Testament. However, due to the fact that in his research he was impressed by the historical minutiae, in these two books, he completely changed his mind and marveled at the truths contained in these books.
None of which are first-hand accounts. (None contemporary to the life of the Jesus character.) All of which were written anonymously. All of which have been changed, edited, and rewritten so many times over that we have no idea what the âoriginal textsâ may have said. We have no original documents. We also have a good understanding of how these 33 books were thrown together, to create the modern cannon and why and how other books were eliminated. The anthology you call the bible is a man made creation. It was pasted together by religious leaders with the sole intent of creating a cannon that reflected their beliefs, not the beliefs of Jeus, the Jews, or any God.
Josephus (AD 93â94) The Jesus character apparently died in AD 33. Josephus never met jesus. He never saw Jesus. He never cites meeting anyone who met the original Jesus. Josephus did not write about Jesus. Josephus wrote about what Christians were claiming about Jesus.* He wrote about what the Christians of his time were claiming. The most famous passage, *[Testimonium Flavianum] is a well known forgery, inserted by Christian authors into the writings of Josephus.
Tacitus ( The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Jesus, his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written c. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1] Not contemporary to Jesus. Again, Tacitus never knew Jesus. This is not a first hand account. He is only writing about what Christians are claiming. He has no actual knowledge. The fact that he wrote about the Jesus myth of his time, does nothing to confirm the actual history.
You can quote as many scholars as you like. The fact of the matter is this. Religious scholars like to believe these excerpts are somehow evidence. They are stories. Nothing more. They are evidence of nothing but the claims of what Christians of the time were making. There are no contemporary works citing the actual existence of the Jesus character. This is regardless of the fact that the earth shook and split rocks, a darkness came over the land, the temple veil that covered the entrance to the Holy of Holies, the actual dwelling place of God among the people, was torn in 2 from top to bottom, graves opened up, and the saints came out and after the resurrection they appeared to many people. Regardless of all this, no one, not a single person, and certainly no first century historian, wrote a single word about Jesus.
Here is a list of first century historians we would have expected to hear from if any of the Jesus stories were true: Plutarch and Strabo , for instance, who lived and wrote soon after the alleged advent of Christ, are both silent upon the leading events recorded in the Gospels.â
Pens a secular Greco-Roman version of âcreation mythâ, narrated exactly as in Genesis, in his Metamorphosis , but is not aware of any baby Jesus.
Caligula (ruled: 37-41AD); author of an historical work, containing the history of Rome, from the beginning of the civil wars almost down to his own death, which was published by his son Seneca the Younger, who was tutor to emperor Nero (ruled: 54-68AD), whose portrait, of note, is carved on the walls of Dendera Temple worshiping the dying and rising god Osiris (not Jesus); neither him nor his son make mention of an dying and rising Jesus?
Roman emperor who completed Dendera Temple, the place where the âOsiris resurrectionâ is depicted, in full detail, which is from where the story of the âJesus resurrectionâ derives; there is no extant work of his mentioning any âJesusâ dying and rising under his reign? In 39AD, he led an embassy from the Jews to the court of Emperor Gaius Caligula; spent time in Jerusalem (On Providence) where he had intimate connections with the royal house of Judaea; he wrote extensive apologetics on the Jewish religion and commentaries on contemporary politics. About thirty manuscripts and at least 850,000 words are extant. He offers commentary on all the major characters of the Pentateuch and, as we might expect, mentions Moses more than a thousand times. Yet, he says NOT a word about Jesus , Christianity, nor any of the events described in the New Testament.
YOU HAVE NOTHING!
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No author of the Bible (or any other book) met Jesus.
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Youâre preaching pal, and have zero interest in debate. Address peopleâs posts or find a pulpit.
I have no time for liars who come to the debate forum, but have no intention of debating anything, because they just want to peddle their superstition and preach to us.
Like all the gospels that one was anonymous hearsay:
âThe Gospel According to Luke, written in roughly 85 C.E. (± five to ten years), most likely during the reign of the Roman Emperor Domitian, is known in its earliest form from extensive papyri fragments dating to the early or middle of the third century.â
Appeal to authority fallacy, again, yawn.
The Spiderman films had many accurate truths in them as well, this doesnât make Spiderman real. This is a false equivalence, since containing historical truths, does not in any way objectively evidence Jesus, if he existed as anything but human.
I look forward to you ignoring this and rolling on to your next irrational sermon.
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You quote a religious fanatic from 1939 whose purpose in doing any research at all was to form a church? Really? Thatâs what you have? Oh, by the way, 1939 is nowhere near AD 33.
TĂBINGEN SCHOOL
William Mitchell Ramsay was educated in the Tubingen School of thought.
A group of 19th-century Protestant theologians, whose main interest was the New Testament and the nature of Christianity as described therein. The schoolâs founder was F. C. baur (1792â1860), who had been formed in the Lutheran orthodox tradition that had flourished until then at the University of TĂŒbingen. The movementâs first Ă©lan came seemingly from Baurâs Symbolik und Mythologie der Naturreligion des Altertums (1824â25), written from a viewpoint produced by contact with the thought of schleiermacher. The substance of the schoolâs endeavors, however, consisted in the rigorous application of the ideas of hegel to the development to Christianity,* especially that of the primitive Church.
Not even close to an objective source of historical reference.
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Also not an authority on supernatural magic, so no amount of historical accuracy would represent sufficient evidence to support those claims, hence not only an appeal to authority fallacy, but a false equivalence as well.
This is why @WhoAreYou is dishonestly preaching and avoiding debate, he accepts claims that promote his beliefs uncritically, and so he obviously doesnât want to honestly address any criticisms any of us present.
He is not here for debate, thatâs been clear from the first.
Strabo stopped writing in AD24, which is when he is thought to have died. Moreover, that is before the public ministry of Christ.
Plutarch has writings that are lost. Furthermore, there are no writings by Plutarch on Nero.
On the subject of Nero, there are no contemporary writings with Nero of Nero that have survived, but you make no mention of that:
Iâm not sure exactly what that is supposed to mean; but Iâm pretty sure there are contemporary sources for Nero.
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I donât believe Nero was a deity either.
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NERO: Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus was Roman emperor and the final emperor of theJulio-Claudian dynasty, reigning from AD 54 until his death in AD 68. Even if Nero had writings, he is not contemporary to the life of Jesus. It might have been possible for him to know someone who met Jesus, but we donât even have that.
Strabo, 64 or 63 BC â c. 24 AD, well within the life of Jesus. Certainly a contemporary.
Plutarch, AD 46 â after AD 119, certainly close enough to the death of Jesus, AD 33, to know something about all the events previously mentioned. (NOTHING)
Tiberius (ruled: 14-37AD), the one in charge when âJesusâ was purported to have been crucified. there is no evidence that Tiberiusâthe emperor from 14-37 C.E. when Jesus was activeâknew about Jesus. Regardless of the dead walking the streets and the earth thrown into darkness.
Nero (ruled: 54-68AD), whose portrait, of note, is carved on the walls of Dendera Temple worshiping the dying and rising god Osiris (not Jesus); neither him nor his son make mention of an dying and rising Jesus?
It is not explicitly documented whether Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius knew of Jesus during their lifetimes.
THE FIRST CENTURY IS DARK. NO ONE KNEW OF THIS MAGIC MAN WHO COULD WALK ON WATER LIKE ORION, TURN WATER INTO WINE LIKE DIONYSUS, RAISE THE DEAD LIKE ALL GODS BEFORE HIM.
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Just a teensy correction to an otherwise fine postâŠthe 1st 2/3 of the 1st century are dark on the existence of the Jesus character as described in the bible.
The 1st century is alive with documented Messiahs, census, Legionaries reports, inventories, merchants orders and reports from all parts of the empire to Rome.
Not one mentions the jesus character (as described in the gospels) at all except for the âPaul characterâ and he admits all his knowledge is acquired from dreams or hallucinations, also he has a very profitable axe to grind.
Not until the last quarter of the 1st century do some fanciful tales pop up describing a magical undead being named as Jesus.
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Please share the surviving works written about Nero.