Oh Fuck, would you stop… Buddhism is ripe with
gods, spirits, and all sorts of woo woo. Just Stop;.
Korean Buddhism Deities Gallary
Common Gods in India China and Japan
All temples have special Gods that protect them. When you go to a temple they will look at you as you enter.
Have you ever been to an actual Buddhist temple?
Hinduism: Christ is in the Vedas, the sagas call Him Purusha shubham
Heracles: Christ influenced Heracles myth with the walking on water story, ascended into heaven etc
Krishna: Christ influenced Krishna myth with the story of a virgin having a baby, Krishna raised a dead son to life. Jesus is the perfect guru
Mithras: Christ influenced the myth belief in Mithraism included eternal life through a blood sacrifice
Buddhism: Jesus is a Bodhisattva, enlightened man and a wise teacher
Islam: Jesus is Isa and was sinless, ascended to heaven and was a wise tracher
Bahá’í: Jesus was a prophet of God, born of a virgin, faced a trial, was crucified
New Ageism: Jesus is an excellent spiritual example and teacher
You are quite literally destroying the validity of Jesus’s existence with these, as you are referencing religions that predate Christianity, and the timings of the supposed events.
These are the arguments used against the claim that Jesus was a legitimate historical figure, rather than an amalgamation of multiple different characters from already existing religions.
I guessing that will be the funniest thing I read today. The story of Hercules is at least 500 years older than the story of Jesus.
Unless of course @WhoAreYou is asserting that the story of Hercules was altered after Christianity arose? but what would be the point of that?
That is also an assertion that carries with a burden of proof, that I doubt will ever be fulfilled.
I was unable to access the link you provided but did enlarge the picture of the doc and read it. Do you not get that any number of others could fit those parameters? They seem to be pretty squishy predictions imo.
Still waiting @WhoAreYou, for you to explain how the human genome evidences any deity, as you claimed?
That’s pretty funny, given that according to Herodotus, Heracles lived 900 years before Herodotus’ own time (c. 1300 BCE ).
I look forward to you rolling past this gaff with impunity, as per your previous erroneous nonsense, your dishonesty is now becoming tedious.
What is even funnier the ridiculous false statement was presumably made to establish that god/Jesus was real and that the Greeks copied from the story. Now that they have learned that is more or less backwards; will they consider it evidence against the reality of the Jesus story? I’m guessing they will not.
Meanwhile, let’s take a look at this latest outing into the world of fantasy apologetic fabrication in more detail, shall we?
You’ve already been schooled on the matter, that the universe is regarded as having a “beginning” by modern cosmologists IN ITS CURRENT FORM. Indeed, I’ve devoted a good few column inches to one particular pre-Big-Bang cosmology by Paul Steinhardt and Neil Turok, though once again, you choose to ignore this inconvenient fact.
Poppycock. This is merely yet another example of that well-known practice, of painting fake apologetic bullseyes around later scientific discoveries, a pathetic practice that is especially popular with pedlars of amateur Muslim apologetics - whose assertions you would doubtless dismiss. We dismiss your similar deployment of this practice for the same reasons, namely, the idea that the Bronze Age scribblers of your mythology knew anything about modern scientific ideas is a delusional fantasy.
Oh by the way, you forgot to mention certain other passages, such as Isaiah 11:12 (among others) that imply the earth is flat. Indeed, Matthew 4:8 is perhaps the canonical example of said implication, viz:
Er, this would only be possible on a flat Earth. Indeed, no matter how high you are above the surface of the Earth, the most you can see is 50% of its surface, and that’s the limit at an infinite distance above the Earth’s surface. Elementary trigonometry tells you how much of the Earth’s surface you can see from any given vantage point.
Oh wait, this is directly contradicted by 1 Samuel 2:8, which asserts that your cartoon magic man set the planet on pillars, viz:
It’s not the only passage that asserts this. See in addition Job 9:6 and Psalms 75:3.
This is apologetic desperation of the most futile variety. Again, the idea that Bronze Age nomads had any knowledge of modern cosmological concepts is a delusional fantasy. Again, we see this crap from Muslims, claiming that the Koran thought of this first, an assertion you would doubtless dismiss without further ado.
As an example of the level of astronomical ignorance possessed by the goat herder authors of your mythology, both Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:25 talk about the stars “falling from heaven”. Er, this is ridiculous. Even the smallest red dwarf star has a radius ten times greater than the Earth. By the time we move up to the likes of VY Canis Majoris, which has a radius greater than the radius of the orbit of Jupiter around the Sun, this wouldn’t “fall from heaven”, it would engulf the Earth and turn the entire planet to plasma in fairly short order.
Again, desperate apologetic fabrication. Oh, and several modern cosmologists don’t regard time as having a “beginning”, assuming of course that this phrase is even meaningful.
How much effort did you waste upon this blatant exercise in fabrication?
We’re dealing with people who thought it was possible for a human being to survive for 72 hours in a whale’s stomach.
Now your fabrications are becoming pathological. Oh, by the way, it isn’t the Second Law of Thermodynamics that is considered to end the existence of the Earth, rather it being engulfed by the Sun when the Sun becomes a red giant. That you can’t even bring relevant facts into your apologetic fabrication speaks volumes about the paucity of your education.
The short version of the above - you’re talking shit.
Meanwhile, let’s deal with several parts of your mythology that are flatly contradicted by modern scientific discoveries, shall we? Acknowledging in advance the contribution in this vein that @Wily_cat has already provided, but which I shall now expand upon in more detail.
I’ll start with the fact that your mythology asserts (ridiculously, I might add) that Planet Earth was purportedly “created” before the Sun and all the other stars. This has been known to be farcially wrong for DECADES by actual trained astrophysicists. The Earth is known the be just 4.6 billion years old, yet there are stars known to be much older.
Your mythology also asserts, hilariously, that plants were “created” before the Sun existed to power photosynthesis. Again, this is known to be farcically wrong, and has been known to be thus farcially wrong for DECADES
Your mythology asserts that the appearance of various clades of living organisms, took place in an order flatly contradicted by the fossil record. It asserts that whales appeared before birds - WRONG. The first whales didn’t put in an appearance until the Eocene, approximately 50 million years before present, while the first recognisable bird fossils date back to the Jurassic, around 120 million years before present.
Even more hilariously, your mythology asserts that land animals didn’t appear until after the above clades - again, this is farcically WRONG. The first terrestrial vertebrates appeared in the late Devonian, around 370 million years before present, fully 250 million years before the birds.
As for the “let there be light” assertion, you can’t even press the CMB into apologetic service for this purpose. Why? Two reasons - first, the CMB resulted when photons were able to propagate over macroscopic distances for the fist time, which didn’t happen until 370,000 years after the Big Bang, a period in the history of the universe where the most complex compound objects were helium atoms. Second, those photons, when they first propagated, were in the infrared part of the spectrum. Apologetic fabrications to the effect that the Bronze Age incels who scribbled your mythology, knew anything about the electromagnetic spectrum other than visible wavelengths, will be treated with the scorn they deserve.
Then of course there’s the hilarious assertion that genetics is purportedly controlled by coloured sticks, an assertion that was utterly destroyed by a 19th century monk, when he alighted upon how genetics actually operates, and while doing so, launched modern genetics as a properly constituted scientific discipline.
Oh, and by the way, one of the more hilarious aspects of the “global flood” fantasy is this - the drunken captain of the fantasy floating petting zoo is provided by Genesis 7:2, viz:
Oh wait, according to one version of creationist orthodoxy I’m familiar with, the fantasy “global flood” was supposed to have taken place in 2348 BCE. Just one teensy problem here - how did Noah know about the difference between “clean” and “unclean” animals FULLY ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE THIS WAS DEFINED? Leviticus dates to no earlier than 800 BCE, and is the first part of your mythology laying out (in extremely verbose manner, I might add) the difference between supposedly “clean” and “unclean” animals.
For that matter, what was your cartoon magic man doing bringing “unclean” animals into existence in the first place? Especially as, according to the omniscience assertion associated with your cartoon magic man, their “unclean” status would have been known about in advance?
This mythology isn’t so much riddled with plot holes, as outright meteorite impact craters in this regard.
Quite simply, it’s obvious that you visited some shitty apologetics website, and spooned up this crap you’ve regurgitated here from that source, because NO respectable teaching source or textbook would peddle the drivel you’ve unloaded here. It’s also obvious that you failed to learn basic scientific facts that I was aware of in my primary school years, let alone later. Indeed, all of your turgid, steaming offerings here bear the obvious stamp of Christian Nationalist propaganda, in particular the version thereof peddled by the Duplicity Institute and similar cabals of professional liars for doctrine.
It’s a measure of how little genuine knowledge you possess, that you don’t even realise how transparently obvious it is to the rest of us, that you’ve been living in a Christian Nationalist bubble for practically all of your life, a bubble in which the only “sources” you’ve ever read are “approved” repositories of apologetics, and within which your “education” almost certainly consisted exclusively of creationist “homeschooling”. Indeed, you would probably blow an artery if asked to solve elementary trigonometry problems of the sort I was mastering at the age of 11, let alone anything involving surface integrals or tensors.
Your entire stance can be summed up as “Magic Man did it because I know nothing about how testable natural processes work”. Just like the scribblers of your favourite Bronze Age mythology, you possess zero substantive knowledge of basic physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy or geology, let alone any advanced concepts within those and other fields of scientific endeavour. There are several people here, who learned about concepts that you don’t even know exist, and in some cases did so before your sperm met your egg.
Yet, on the basis of this fulminating level of ignorance, you presume to be in a position to hand-wave away experimentally verified scientific postulates, and the data backing said postulates, with zero substantive reason for so doing. You presume, as I’ve stated earlier, that anything contradicting the assertions of your sad little mythology is purportedly “lying”, including reality itself.
How the flying fuck do you function as an adult in the 21st century with this mindset? How the fuck did you learn to operate a computer, while lacking vast swathes of knowledge that many of the rest of us here regard as elementary essentials?
I would, under other circumstances, pity you for having missed so much of the hard fought for and hard won knowledge base of humanity, but any sympathy I might have possessed long ago evaporated when you doubled down upon manifest duplicity, and continued to do so even after the duplicity in question was exposed in a manner that was transparently obvious to the readership here.
Indeed, I’ve just enjoyoed laughing at THIS piece of what was almost certainly, from your standpoint, wholly unintended hilarity:
Let me spell out the baby steps for you here, since you obviously need them. You asserted that an individual influenced a story that was written 1,300 years before that individual existed. An individual that was not even ASSERTED to exist until 1,300 years after the fact.
If you can’t see why those of us who paid attention in class are laughing at this, there’s no hope for you.
Indeed, I smell more desperate apologetic fabrication. I too hit a “404 Not Found” when following that link.
I wasn’t even able to check the provenance of the author(s) of that turgid document, though I suspect that yet again, they will be found to be, surprise, surprise, evangelical Christian apologists. The only time he references the work of people outside this demographic, is if other pedlars of apologetics have provided him with a “safe” and “approved” apologetic dismissal or rewriting of said work.
The link leads to a PDF download which I scrutinised with a variety of software before downloading, I shall take screen shots of it.
And of course, I am not unlocking a 30 day free trial, and I’m not going to resort to subjectively less moral methods to work around, as it is simply not worth the effort or time.
Two possibilities here … first being an Indian Christian who’s swallowed the American evangelical Kool-Aid. The second being a Hindu nationalist who’s trying to appropriate Jesus for Hinduism, in much the same way that hardline Hindu nationalists try to claim that modern science was first mentioned in the Vedas. A trick they’ve apparently copied from the Muslims they hate so much.
Trouble is, there’s dozens of people called “Krishnan Kesavan” that turn up via Google, including a Toronto GP, a software developer involved in machine learning, at least two tenured molecular biologists, and a corporate risk analyst. The author of this paper doesn’t turn up in the initial search pages.
I wonder if this document was ever submitted to a journal, and if so, which one? Only that would provide some important clues as to what’s going on here. Though whichever of the options I’ve listed above (or any potential third option) happens to be applicable, this still looks and smells like more ex recto apologetic fabrication. Though it would be amusing if option two above is the one that applies, and would simply reinforce how gullible our resident mythology fanboy really is.
That makes my estimate of 500 (or more) years seem rather conservative. I don’t know that much ancient history; but I know the culture that produced the mythology of Hercules, had ceased to exist hundreds of years before Jesus was supposedly raising an army of dead in Jerusalem.
Ah yes, but we don’t have our “lies for Jesus” glasses on. 
I wonder if he will even acknowledge this astonishing error, the evidence thus far suggests not.
“Predicted by prophecy
Born by unnatural means
Protected as an infant
Faced temptation
Was associated with shepherds
Possessed supernatural power
Engaged and taught humans directly
Recognized the need for a sacrifice
Established a divine meal
Faced a trial
Had the power to defeat death
Offered eternal life
Judge the living and the dead”
Who is this?
“He was a descendent of Abraham and of the tribe of Judah.
He was born in the town of Bethlehem.
He burst onto the scene from an unlikely social position.
He was anointed by God to lead his people.
He was both shepherd and king
He amazed the elders as a young man.
He spent time in the wilderness.
He had no place to lay his head.
His Popularity angered the leaders of the time.
He was betrayed by those he served.
He trusted God in the face of adversity.”
Who is this?
“His name, was translated from Hebrew, means “God is salvation“
His ministry started at the Jordan River.
He received the Spirit of his father.
He was surrounded by more disciples than his predecessors.
He was attested by God with miracles, signs, and wonders.
He raised a woman’s adult son from the grave.
He fed many people with just a few loaves and had more to spare.
He healed a leper.
He gave sight to the blind.
He fed the hungry.
He was betrayed for money.”
who is this?
“He preached repentance to gentiles.
He knew that salvation belongs to the Lord.
He slept on a boat during a storm.
He acted and the power of God calmed the storm.
He chose to sacrifice himself or others
He spent three days in darkness given up for dead.
After three days, he escaped death and talked for 40 days.”
who is this?
“As a baby, he escaped the decree of a king and avoided certain death.
He lived in Egypt as a child but later returnt to his homeland.
He was known by his followers to be both humble and strong.
He was tempted well in the wilderness.
He was attested by God through signs and wonders.
He worked a miracle at the sea.
He miraculously fed thousands of people with bread.
He spoke God’s word and taught God’s law from a Mountain.
He was a mediator between God and his people.”
who is this?
“His name, was translated from Hebrew, means “God saves”
He descended from a man named Joseph.
He had a humble, obscure beginning, but rose to a place of honor.
He was anointed by God.
He was filled with God’s Spirit.
He lead and shepherded his people
He did for God’s people what Moses could not do.
He deliver God’s people from the enemies of God.
He promised rest and provided it.”
Who is this?
“He was a special object of his father’s love.
He was underestimated odiscounted by his own family.
He had the ability to resist the temptation.
He fed bread to people to relieve their hunger.
He accurately foretold the future.
He was sold by someone he trusted for pieces of silver.
He was stripped of his robe and delivered to Gentiles.
He stood before rulers in the assembly.
He was falsely accused.
His own people did not recognize him.”
who is this?
“he was predicted by prophecy.
He was a descendent of Abraham and of the tribe of Judah.
He descended from a man named Joseph.
He was born by unnatural means.
He was born in the town of Bethlehem.
He burst into the scene from an unlikely social position.
he was a special object of his father’s love.
His name, when translated from Hebrew, means “God saves”
As a baby, he escaped decree of a king and avoided certain death.
He was protected as an infant.
He lived in Egypt as a child but later returned to his homeland.
He had a humble, obscure beginning, but rose to place of honor.
He amazing elders as a young man.
He spent time in the wilderness.
He was tempted well in the wilderness.
He faced temptation.
He had the ability to resist temptation.
His ministry started at the Jordan river
He received the spirit of his father.
He was underestimated and discounted by his own family.
His own people did not recognize him.
He was associated with shepherds
He led and Shepherded his people.
He was both shepherd and king.
He was known by his followers to be both humble and strong.
He was surrounded by more disciples than his predecessor.
He was anointed by God.
He was filled with God’s spirit.
He was anointed by God to lead his people
He was attested by God with miracles, signs, and wonders.
He was a supernatural power.
He miraculously fed thousands of people with just a few loaves of bread and had more to spare.
He healed a leper.
He gave sight to the blind.
He raised a woman’s adult son from the grave.
He slept on the boat during a storm.
He calmed the storm With the power of God.
He worked a miracle at the sea.
He accurately foretold a future.
He engaged and taught humans directly.
He spoke God‘s word and taught God’s law from a mountain.
He preached repentance to gentiles.
He knew that salvation belongs to the Lord.
He had no place to lay his head.
He recognize the need for a sacrifice.
He established a divine meal
His popularity angered the leaders of the time.
He was sold by someone he trusted for pieces of silver.
He was betrayed by those he served
He faced a trial
He stood before rulers in the assembly.
He was falsely accused.
He was stripped of his robe and deliver to gentiles.
He trusted God in the face of adversity.
He chose to sacrifice himself or others
He spent three days in darkness given up for deas
He had the power to defeat death.
After three days, he escaped death and taught 440 days.
He offered eternal life.
He promised rest and provided it
He was a mediator between God and his people.
He did for God‘s people with Moses could not do
He delivered God’s people from the enemies of God.
He will judge the living and the dead.”
The first list is a compilation of attributes of deities in ancient myths. But none of the deities(Serapis worshipped 350 BCE to 385 CE Shangdi worshipped 2230 BCE to 1911CE, Dionysus worshipped 650 BCE to 186 BCE, Mithras worshipped 400 BCE to 380 CE, Heracles worshipped 600 BCE to 250 CE, Zalmoxis worshipped 500 BCE to 5 BCE, Thakur Jiu worshipped 1000 BCE to the present) possessed all these attributes.
The separate lists enumerated 1-6 are from ancient writings from the Old Testament, from Jewish scripture, it’s not Jesus.
Number seven is a description of Jesus. “ the description is eerily similar to the person we know today as Jesus of Nazareth, and this level of detail can be gleaned not from the New Testament record, but from non-Christian sources that preceded the New Testament. If nothing else, the ancient clearly shared, common expectations related to divine beings, and were intimately familiar with the attributes of those who wrote about Jesus would later document.”
@WhoAreYou please explain how your long list of preaching unevidenced claims in your last post, answer your own thread question? You seem to be just breezing in occasionally to preach at people? If you want to preach why not seek out theists who would appreciate you peddling unevidenced superstition? Most of those claims have already been addressed, and now you’re ignoring those responses to just repeat them in a long tedious list. This is a debate forum after all.
I am expounding on the claims i made in the debate earlier.
How do you KNOW that he was born by unnatural means? Maybe Mary was just a slut that lied about how she got pregnant.
You don’t KNOW anything.
So, by saying this, are you asserting that these other worshipped gods did not exist just because they weren’t as hip and groovy as your god? Or did they exist and were just lame gods compared to your god?
That’s not true, you simply made an unevidenced assertion and cited a long list of unevidenced claims, many of which have been addressed by more than one poster, and you have ignored those responses, only to repeat the bogus claim here?
There are countless claims about Jesus, even though you now know no one has any idea what Jesus ever said or did, since the gospels are unevidenced hearsay, written many decades after the events they pretend to describe. So why just make a long list of repetitious claims based on unevidenced hearsay, that’s not debate?
How would you feel if an atheist came into your church and started shouting out facts that dispute your beliefs?
