Why do you think

You mean SCIENCE. Your continued misrepresentation of science in this manner merely demonstrates that you’re fulminatingly duplicitous.

This has already been done for entities you don’t even know exist. Try again.

Good luck with finding a “gotcha” that doesn’t involve your usual rampant duplicity.

But not simple enough for you to understand it seems …

Drop the “atheistic materialism” duplicitous misrepresentation of science, mythology fanboy, because it IS duplicitous, and I’ll explain why. First, if scientists alight upon genuine evidence for a god type entity of any sort, they will eagerly publish the requisite data. Second, the moment reputable peer reviewed scientific journals find out about this, they’ll be queuing up to be the first to present the results in public. Third, success in this endeavour will guarantee a Nobel Prize for the scientists in question.

Indeed, the people expressing the most butthurt, the moment this happens, will be mythology fanboys like you, because the data in question will almost certainly falsify all of the sad, pathetic pre-scientific mythologies in existence at a stroke. We know in advance that the data won’t point to any of the cartoon magic men in question, because said cartoon magic men are not merely made up shit, they’re badly made up shit. Even from the standpoint of fiction, they’re ridiculous.

Science has an explanation for this. Which has already been presented to you. Stop lying.

No there aren’t, this is a fiction you pulled out of your anal sphincter.

Except it doesn’t. Plus, “Magic Man did it” isn’t an “answer” to anything, it’s an open admission of stupidity and ignorance on the part of eveyone who presents it.

Bullshit. The made up shit “answer” involving an imaginary cartoon magic man, plays NO part whatsoever in the scientific explanation thereof. Scientists didn’t have to “steal” anything from your worthless Bronze Age mythology, because it had nothing worth stealing. Stop lying.

You mean SCIENCE. Every time you come up with the “materialism” bullshit, you’re simply making a spectacle of yourself before a global public audience.

Bullshit. Science has demonstrated time and again that qualitative phenomena have quantitative underpinnings. My exposition on the SN1987A supernova event, and the scientific findings relted thereto, is a classic example of this.

Total crap. And once again, you mean SCIENCE.

This is such a blatant ex recto fabrication on your part, that several here will be left questioning your sanity for posting it.

Here’s a clue for you - the electromagnetic spectrum detonates a nuclear depth charge under this encephalitic assertion of yours.

Bullshit. Your desperate and ignorance driven straw clutching is amusing to behold.

Bullshit. The burden of proof for SCIENTIFIC postulates lies with SCIENTISTS. And unlike mythology fanboys, scientists have DELIVERED, and delivered by the supertanker load.

The only thing an atheist is required to do, is watch mythology fanboys like you fail to support their assertions, and discard said assertions as a corollary of said failure.

Stop lying on this matter.

It’s nothing to do with “need”, mythology fanboy, it’s everything to do with being a consequence of the quantitative underpinnings.

The only one in need of luck here is you.

By the way, how much is the Duplicity Institute paying you for being their shill here? Only your rhetoric is now so blatantly traceable to their house style, as to destroy any notion that this is mere coincidence. Much of your vocabulary is straight out of the Wedge Strategy document.

Meanwhile:

Indeed, in a species whose offspring take 18 years to reach sexual maturity, and which are in need not only of intensive parental care for, say, the first 10 of those years, but parental guidance up to the point of sexual maturity, having two parents to perform the requisite tasks is demonstrably better than having just one parent, certainly in an environment involving the presence of determined and resourceful predators. Consequently, any phenomenon that results in the parents being committed to a long term pair bond will improve the survival chances of the offspring.

I’m aware that this principle works in fish. I’ve mentioned in the past, that Central and South American Cichlids exhibit lifelong monogamous pairing, coupled with intensive parental care of their offspring, and even listed several species that are aquarium favourites, precisely because they provide the aquarist with this behaviour in the aquarium. Indeed, the author of one of my aquarium books, Dr William T Innes, was so taken by this behaviour on the part of these fishes, that he described them in an anthropomorphic manner that would not pass muster in any modern text, though he can be forgiven for doing so in 1936. At some point I will have to scan the book (or use the text mode of my digital camera to shoot the pages), and bring that text here, because despite its obsolescence and the aforementioned faults, it’s still usefully informative despite this, as the essential information hasn’t changed since he wrote the words.

Oh, of course, any taxonomic names mentioned therein are in some cases obsolete - the entire Cichlasoma Genus as he knew it has been massively revised in modern times, and there are now at least two dozen new Genera constructed as part of a thoroughgoing phylogenetic analysis of the entire Cichlid clade. But with those provisos in mind, this is one example of an old book that’s still relevant and still contains useful, empirically verifiable information. A lesson there for our mythology fanboy …

Ha! Finally! Gotchu! That’s copyright infringement!

If you can make that mistake, how can we trust any of your other well documented and expressed views here.

Criminal … just criminal.

Not for a work that’s over 70 years old. Copyright expires after that time in jurisdictions that have copyright laws. Plus, this comes under the heading of “fair use”. And, of course, I’ve owned this book since I was 12. It’s a bit tatty now as a result. but still functional. I’m free to distribute small quantities of information from a work I’ve already paid for to own, which means the author (if he’s even still alive) was paid for his work when I bought the book.

We’re talking 9 pages of text from a 500 page volume. Well within the fair use rules. :slight_smile:

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There are questions which can not be answered. If you find that method A does not work; that does NOT imply that a method B exists that does work. What you’ve said is false.

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What question? Some ‘questions’ are completely nonsensical.

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It’s a secret, @Sid is only to claim love evidences a deity, he’s not allowed (able :wink:) to explain how, quelle surprise. the more you ask, the more he pointedly ignores the question.

And the wheels on the bus go round and round…

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Meanwhile, having double checked that I’m legally safe to do this, here’s those pages from what I refer to as “The Venerable Innes Book”, covering his description of the behaviour of Cichlids. Bear in mind at the time he wrote this (1936), the aquarium world had yet to become aware of the vast number of species of Rift Lake Cichlid from Africa, which exhbit. if anything, even more eclectic breeding behaviour than their Neotropical cousins (a topic for another time methinks).

Enjoy reading this account, as despite the flaws I’ve mentioned, it still presents the essential observed behaviours with considerable fidelity.

I’m not sure if the book is still in print (would be something of a surprise if it was), but if anyone can ontain a copy, it provides fascinating reading for the diligent.

Oh, and by the way, Cichlids aren’t the only fish that engage in advanced parental care of their young. The various Anabantoid fishes (Gouramis and Siamese Fighting Fishes) also provide advanced parental care for their young, and moreover, build bubble nests in floating vegetation as part of that proess of parental care, into which the eggs are propelled after fertilisation. There are also the Sticklebacks, which build nests and provide some degree of parental care (though in their case, the male assumes primary nesting duties), the Nandids, and in the world of marine coral reef fishes, the Pomacentridae (Damselfishes and Clownfishes) have a mating and parental care modus operandi similar to the Cichlids (hardly surprising as the two are sister clades).

Another group of marine fishes providing advanced parental care are the Triggerfishes,which bring to the business of defence of young from predators, powerful clam crushing jaws and the ability to inflict a lot of damage on enemies of their young. And, of course, most people here should be familiar with the Sygnathidae, the Family containing the Seahorses and Pipefish, which bring to the table the truly amazing spectacle of male pregnancy.

Then there are various marine Gobies, which not only provide parental care for their young, but in some cases, do so alongisde various shrimp species that they share a burrow with. The shrimp provides the excavating power to build the burrow, while the goby provides the shrimp with advance warning of incoming predators, and brings food to the burrow to share with the shrimp.

These behaviours were in place within the requisite clades, several million years before humans appeared on the scene and started scribbling sad little mythologies. Those fish didn’t need a cartoon magic man to develop those behaviours, they simply needed evolution to make those behaviours selectable.

You keep repeating the line “good luck with that”. Apparently you have zero evidence to back up your claim that god and love are basically the same, one can’t exist without the other according to you.
Do you have any evidence to back this up?
Good luck with that.

We have two choices - God or no God
A blind pitiless meaningless purposeless lifeless universe consists of nothing but mass ,charge, spin etc . Explain how Love is a product of this .

The evidence suggests it evolved driven by natural selection, as it presents a survival benefit.

CITATION

Now it’s your turn to explain how it is the product of your imaginary deity?

No, this is still a false dichotomy, one can also simply disbelieve your claim an unevidenced deity exists, without making a contrary claim.

How does the existence of evolved emotions like love evidence a deity, or anything supernatural? You keep dodging this question, and I will keep pointing out your duplicity.

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Still worrying this overchewed bone of yours?

Did you fail to notice my providing an explanation in a previous post? Viz:

Or the fact that I explicitly stated that relevant phenomena are regularly observed to take place in FISH SPECIES?

I bet you never even bothered to acknowledge the existence of those pages I scanned from a book covering this topic, let alone read the pages in question.

Do you ever bother learning FACTS when people present them to you? Are you so wedded to your goat herder mythology, that you prefer it over reality itself?

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Oh I’ve got this one, ask me, please…

Fish in a barrel, ask me ask me, I know this one as well…

@Sid has zero interest in learning, and zero interest in reality, unless it reinforces his belief in religious superstition.

Ask him how, as he claimed, love is sufficient reason on it’s own, to believe a deity exists? He won’t even try to answer, he will simply use an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy again, and insist the existence of love has no other explanation, despite several posters including your good self offering precisely such evidence and explanations, which he then ignores to repeat his unevidenced claim ad nauseam.

FWIW he was never hear for debate, and isn’t even pretending he is. He is here to make claims, and then scurry away for a while, then return to repeat those claims and ignore the responses.

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“suggests” ,what total bollocks .

Blind pitiless meaningless purposeless lifeless inanimate matter that is nothing more than mass, charge , spin etc contains no “qualitative”.
Once again you steal Theistic values to try and account for a “qualitative” that has no place in materialistic models of the world .

image

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“scanned from a book” hahaha . That’s makes it the gospel truth then does it ? ( pun intended )

Appeal to authority ? I’ll give it a go myself . Here’s one of those goat herders you like to bleat on about.
I suspect he has a little bit more science credentials than you like to claim for yourself . What’s amazing is the scientific background of people who you can find herding goats .

Both religion and science require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all considerations… To the former He is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized world view.”

“There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls.”

Max Planck, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist who made the crucial scientific contribution of founding quantum physics. Planck was a devout Christian and a member of the Lutheran Church in Germany.

Religion and Natural Science (Lecture Given 1937) Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers, trans. F. Gaynor (New York, 1949), pp. 184

One claim or book is demonstrable and testable.

Another claim or book is bollocks and has failed at every hurdle.

Take a guess which one is which?

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Please enlighten us what constitutes “devout”. How did you measure it.
We could play quote wars. Sounds fun. Here’s another of Planck’s from which one could extrapolate that the word “devout” might not be applicable:

“…“to believe” means “to recognize as a truth”, and the knowledge of nature, continually advancing on incontestably safe tracks, has made it utterly impossible for a person possessing some training in natural science to recognize as founded on truth the many reports of extraordinary occurrences contradicting the laws of nature, of miracles which are still commonly regarded as essential supports and confirmations of religious doctrines, and which formerly used to be accepted as facts pure and simple, without doubt or criticism. The belief in miracles must retreat step by step before relentlessly and reliably progressing science and we cannot doubt that sooner or later it must vanish completely.“

Edited to add:

“ Noted historian of science John L. Heilbron characterized Planck’s views on God as deistic.[44] Heilbron further relates that when asked about his religious affiliation, Planck replied that although he had always been deeply religious, he did not believe “in a personal God, let alone a Christian God.”[45]

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Probably the same way you measure Love . Evidence suggests survival benefits also.

Sigh…why don’t you just answer the question? How do you define and measure the qualifier devout?