There’s an element of faith in Buddhism. However, the Buddha tells us, “postpone your doubts for the moment and follow this line of thought. If you do, you may live to experience amazing feelings of love, joy, and compassion.”
Your “doctrine” - it tells you, “postpone your doubts for the moment. I have nothing left to tell you. If you live you entire life “believing” in me, then at the end - I “promise” you will have everlasting life.”
And you think that most of us don’t know a good bargain when we see one!
LOL… and completely deviate from the 'Middle way." Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha … You don’t really think Buddhism is about love and good feelings do you. Tha’t kist so.
Except that your goat herder mythology presented two assertions that were completely and utterly wrong. First, that the city would be erased from the face of the Earth, never to be rebuilt. Except that oops, the Romans rebuilt sizeable chunks thereof, and their ruins form part of the modern day Tyre UN World Heritage Site. Furthermore, the city is today a bustling metropolis of 200,000 people, and you can even take Google Steet View tours of the city.
Second, your goat herder mythology asserted that Nebuchadnezzar would be the individual bringing the supposed hammer of doom crashing down upon Tyre. Again, what we learn from real history, is that Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to the city for 13 years, then decided to exact tribute from the city in lieu of storming it.
Plus, when Alexander the Great sacked the city of tyre, he didn’t materially destroy it. Though he was stated to have exacted a brutal revenge upon its citizens for their conduct during the siege.
Once again, your mythology isn’t a book of facts, it’s a book of fiction.
Absolutely. Check your sources. The middle way culminates in “Right Concentration”. That is, the development of the Jhanas which include “rapture and bliss”.
That bliss is what? It is not a hedonistic ecstasy.
In this world of distraction and intellectual flexing, a man lived long ago, who understood the divine pleasure of metta (loving kindness) and Karuna (compassion).
I excluded “equanimity” in my post to “dumb ass” because I wanted to entice this deluded Jesus freak into something better.
However, you are still wrong. Of all of the “divine abidings” described by the Buddha, “equanimity” is hailed by him to be the best.
What better to finish the middle way than an infinite abiding in equanimity.
The path through metta, joy, and compassion is not trot without reason. These states are exulted. But “Upekkha” - that is, “equanimity” is the highest state declared by the Buddha.
He does not declare it as a mundane state of “indifference”. It is a unique experience of equal “opinion” towards all living things.
Blissful is the opposite of sorrowful and what we call sorrowful is the opposite of blissful. These are opposing conceptual experiences. You have trained your mind to think dualistically. Nirvana being non-conceptual is free from both the conceptual blissfulness and the conceptual sorrowfulness and there are no words in any language to describe it thus it remains the middle way. Poor poor ratty. Attachment is your friend. You hang in there. Buddhism is right and correct, Nirvana and reincarnation are true. Karma is going to get you if you are not careful. Trust the Buddha and be like him.
I know the difference between severe mental and physical pain, versus exalted physical and mental bliss. If that is duality, so what?
You are inserting “sunyata” into the equation. You are familiar with this word? It pervades the Mahayana interpretation.
In truth, these heights of spiritual bliss are markers along the path. They are not the goal, but without them the goal could not be achieved.
I do not “know” Nirvana. I know it the same as you. I understand it according to the doctrine of the Buddha.
This may or may not interest you, but the extinguishment of greed, hatred, and delusion is the definition of Nirvana.
That is only “non-dual” in the same way that a candle, once burnt out, has no explanation in terms of “existing”.
We approach pain and pleasure from a dual mind set in order to transcend this pain and pleasure.
Do you know the formulation of the Jhanas? No, cheap shots. Seriously. They are the heart of the doctrine.
The meaning is that - all told; the fourth Jhana approaches “neither pain nor pleasure” and “perfect equanimity. Just as you say … “non-dual”.
This too, I know (says Yoda).
The words exist. The Buddha has spoken them. The extinguishing of ignorance is Nirvana. Not some lofty spiritual state. Even the Buddha experienced pain and pleasure after enlightenment.
Who could argue that Buddhism isn’t correct? Are there any contractions in his doctrine? If I had the know how, I would test it as a mathematically coherent system of thought ! I think it would pass!
I do trust the Buddha! I’ve met him personally. Just as I’ve met Mara. You forget (so easily) that I am mentally “ill”!
LOL… There is no path silly rodent. There is only your imagination and then… from all we actually know… death. You follow a path seeking freedom from it. How silly is that when all you ever had to do was step to the side and let the indoctrinated walk by. LOL
There is the “Noble Eightfold Path” set out by the Buddha in his “Four Noble Truths”.
It starts with “Right View” and “Right Thought” - ie. the understanding and conviction that all things have stress, impermanence, and not-self as marks of reality.
It then consists of a standard moral code - to wit; “Right Action”, “Right Speech”, and “Right Livelihood”.
It then consists of the meditative component - to wit; “Right Effort” - ie. the effort to put down unskillful qualities and the keep them from arising any further; to bring about skillful qualities and work to keep them from falling away.
“Right Mindfulness” - the practice of observing and understanding experience in four respects - in respect to the body; in respect to feelings; in respect to the mind; and in respect to the Dharma.
Finally - “Right Concentration” - the culmination of the path - the destination - defined as the successive entry into and emergence from the four Jhanas.
From all you actually know.
I’m not sure what you mean by this? I have to let the “indoctrinated walk by”? What does that mean?
Why do you keep quoting the Bible? No one here believes a single word of it. Do you believe any of the words in the Koran? What makes you think you’re putting your faith(a waste of time) in the right holy book?
Except these are are subjective, the best one can assert is a broad moral consensus, but then that was true of Nazi Germany. Assigning claims or beliefs to Buddha carries no more credence than assigning the, to Hitler, in the absence of objective evidence they are both appeal to authority fallacies.
What knowledge can you share that suggests we can survive our physical death in any meaningful way?
"Alexander did not completely destroy Tyre. It later regained a place of prominence in the world (cf. Acts 21:3, 7). Isaiah prophesied that after 70 years of devastation, Tyre would be restored to worldwide economic prominence (23:15–18). Her trading profit, however, would be set aside for Yahweh. This may refer to the fact that by New Testament times, only Tyrian coinage was allowed for the temple tax. It went to “those who live (sit) before the Lord” to give them food and fine clothes (high priest’s vestments?) (Is 23:18). Interestingly, the phrase “before the Lord” often refers to acts done with a solemn sense of Yahweh’s presence, many times at a sanctuary (Brown, Driver Briggs 1979: 817).
In 274 BC, some 58 years after Tyre’s demolition by Alexander, the city was given independent status by Ptolemy II. After that she generally received favorable treatment from Greeks and Romans and prospered, in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy. The archaeology of the Roman era revealed arches, roads, buildings, etc. associated with this period."
Acts 21:3-7 " 3 When we came in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left, we kept sailing to Syria and landed at Tyre; for the ship was to unload its cargo there. 4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there for seven days; and they kept telling Paul, through the Spirit, not to set foot in Jerusalem. 5 When our days there were ended, we left and started on our journey, while they all, with wives and children, escorted us until we were out of the city. After kneeling down on the beach and praying, we said farewell to one another. 6 Then we boarded the ship, and they returned home. 7 When we had finished the voyage from Tyre, we arrived at Ptolemais, and after greeting the brothers and sisters, we stayed with them for a day."
Isaiah 23:13-18 " 13 Behold, the land of the Chaldeans—this is the people that did not exist; Assyria allocated it for desert creatures—they erected their siege towers, they stripped its palaces, they made it a ruin.
14 Wail, you ships of Tarshish,
For your stronghold is destroyed.
15 Now on that day Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years like the days of one king. At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute:
16 Take your harp, wander around the city,
You forgotten prostitute;
Pluck the strings skillfully, sing many songs,
That you may be remembered.
17 It will come about at the end of seventy years that the Lord will visit Tyre. Then she will go back to her prostitute’s wages and commit prostitution with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. 18 Her profit and her prostitute’s wages will be sacred to the Lord; it will not be stored up or hoarded, but her profit will become sufficient food and magnificent attire for those who dwell in the presence of the Lord."
“In AD 638 the Arabs conquered the city and her fate began to change. In 1124 it was taken by Crusaders. In AD 1291 the Mameluke Muslims took it and reduced it to ashes. It was the policy of these invaders to make their destruction so severe that Crusaders would not be tempted to ever reoccupy it (Hitti 1997). Tyre for a period of time was all but destitute of inhabitants (Davis and Gehman 1944: 616). In 1517 it became part of the Ottoman (Turkish) empire and fell sway to its incompetent government.”
“The statement in Ezekiel 26:14 does not deny there would be buildings on the island. It means that Tyre would never be rebuilt into the commercial superpower she was in Ezekiel’s day. It means that the palaces and temples of Ezekiel’s day would forever lie deep underneath the ground (and the water!), never to be revived. It would in no way be rebuilt into the prosperous, powerful living entity she was at the time the oracle was given.”
Ezekiel 26 12Also they will take your riches as spoils and plunder your merchandise, tear down your walls and destroy your delightful houses, and [i]throw your stones, your timbers, and your debris into the water. 13So I will put an end to the sound of your songs, and the sound of your harps will no longer be heard. 14I will turn you into a bare rock; you will become a dry place for the spreading of nets. You will not be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken,” declares the Lord GOD.
21I will [m]cause you sudden terrors and you will no longer exist; though you will be sought, you will never be found again,” declares the Lord GOD.
After reading through most of this, it continues to clarify that Theists see and hear what they want. What ever it is, that’s what they need it to be to further justify them believing in their god. If someone else argues, the theist will just blatantly write it off as a lie or ignorance. Whatever helps them sleep at night.
@WhoAreYou, help me understand why you are focusing on Tyre. Are you attempting to demonstrate that your holy book is an historical reference book? Or are you attempting to demonstrate that, since some items in the book are accurate, the entire thing is accurate?
So you completely ignored the data I provided, while at the same time posting the very part of Ezekiel that asserted the city would be destroyed forever and never rebuilt. Do you possess functioning reading comprehension?
Oh you like that! You like making fun of people with mental handicaps! Gives you a real belly ache I’m sure!
Well. News for you, you don’t … your butt is … if I had a dog with a face like yours, I’d … i’d … I would … I would shave it’s butt and teach it to walk backwards!!!
So what? I’ll take that. 99 % of people agree it’s wrong to kill? Yeah. So?
That’s under “Right Action” (ie. “don’t take the life of another being”)
Right effort in the context of the Buddhas teaching is another utilitarian concept.
The Buddha himself tells us to take his teachings and use them like a raft to get to the other shore. Once on the other shore, abandon the raft.
Don’t take it so literally. It’s so funny that you seek certitude in everything, while grasping firmly to a very “relativistic” take on the meaning of words. Lol.
Knowledge of love. Love exists beyond the darkness. Beyond the nothingness. Love cannot be destroyed.
We’ve gone through this. And by the way … you’ve confirmed you’re from Wales (so my conscious geosensors are calibrated).
But were you born in ‘65? I’ve been sending you love for the last two weeks! All I get is “return to sender”! Is something off!!!
Nope, that’s still under subjective belief, removing context and ignoring counter examples is not a sound argument.
It’s a subjective belief, based on ideology / religious beliefs. All morals are subjective.
I didn’t claim nor was I seeking absolute certainty, and you know I have stated on numerous occasions to not believe such an absolute is even possible. I offered evidence in a counter example and you ignored it, and are now misrepresenting that as certitude, which I never claimed. The number of people who believe murder is wrong doesn’t change it being a subjective belief, you’re making a truth claim based on a bare appeal to numbers, it’s an argumentum ad populum fallacy.
I can tell that I believe murder is wrong, and why, but it remains a subjective belief.
Lining up more unevidenced claims in tandem is not knowledge. If it can’t be demonstrated and shared it is not knowledge, it’s a subjective belief.
Like I said, Sheldon. You’re a moral relativist. You take the extreme of Hitler and Nazi Germany and say that because the consensus at the time was “X” it’s somehow just a “good” in a moral sense to the Buddha encouraging us not to kill.
Hitler brought about suffering. The Buddha’s moral code brings about non-suffering. That’s a pretty clear criteria for “moral standards”.
“Effort” is not “morality”. The basic standard for morality is that if it brings about suffering then it’s immoral. If it brings about non-suffering then it’s moral. How is that subjective?
It’s pretty “objective”. It causes “suffering”. The more heinous the act, the more immoral the “murder”. First degree is more immoral than second. Boiling your grandma in hydrochloric acid is more immoral than choking her to death.
What the fuck would you know about knowledge?
You don’t believe in certitude or anything absolute.
