Okay that’s fair. Although I concede the two are not equal, it is a helpful metaphor to get us a little closer to understanding it.
Now that I think about it, isn’t that exactly what we are trying to do here? Mortal men trying to use mortal perceptions to explain or justify the immortal. Seems like a fools errand to me.
I doubt that implying that system B has attributes, that you know for a fact system B does not have; is going to improve anyone’s understanding. It just makes you look dishonest, imo.
I’m of the opinion we aren’t going to be able to come to an understanding while you are doing that.
I disagree, I think it’s a fair metaphor.
Curious what you think about my second statement.
“Now that I think about it, isn’t that exactly what we are trying to do here? Mortal men trying to use mortal perceptions to explain or justify the immortal. Seems like a fools errand to me.“
We’ve had previous users who were spammers who’s names started with the letter C. Clearly you name starts with the letter C. So I guess I should start lobbying to the mods to have you removed for being a spammer, right? Might be hard to convince them, but if I get called out on the ridiculous nature of my accusation; I guess I can always claim it was a metaphor. Thanks for the tips. This is much easier than making a logical argument. How much time I’ve wasted!
Well I was going to comment on this part, but I didn’t want to be any nastier than I’ve already been; so remember you specifically asked for it:
In no way, shape, or form was I trying to explain or justify the immortal/deities. And I resent your suggestion to the contrary. As far as I can tell: you are the only one who might be doing that.
Oh man, your last two comments went right over my head. I’m sorry but I’m not trying to have any kind of emotional tit for tat. That is not my goal here. I am only interested in and will only respond to the critiques of the argument with the hopes of learning. I know not everything I say is valid, the majority aren’t. I am only asking questions out of curiosity and arguing as devils advocate. No pun intended.
You say that, but isn’t that what I provided by pointing out the well known fallacies you were employing in your argument? 
Here’s the thing. We don’t believe anything in the Bible is valid let alone real. Some Christians use their imaginary"skyfather" as an example to justify their actions. I mean, it’s okay for Christians to murder their children if they’re turning into little monsters. Your God says it’s okay. So you must think it’s okay.
“Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.- Exodus 21:17"
Didn’t you bullshit me and tell me that the Old Testament rules didn’t apply? Because there’s a character in the Bible still using scripture from it in the NEW TESTAMENT. Here’s the quote buddy ole pal.
" And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die." - Mark 7:9-10
Christian parents murder their children and justify it.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-mother-kills-year-son-deer-rifle-81541327
Andrea Yates justified it. She said God told her to do it. But we both know she read that in the Bible didn’t she?
All of which are hypothetical scenarios. For any to be taken seriously, one must prove a god. If not god, then the entire exercise is pointless.
Prove a god, then we can debate whether genocide is moral by god’s standard, or Euthyphro’s dilemma comes into play.
So, what you got, other than wishful thinking, that there’s a benevolent god that wants the best for us?
All I’m trying to do here is look for the window of doubt and I can’t find it. The world is a wonderful and difficult thing to understand. In science, we always leave room for doubt. We try to explain things that happen here in our third dimension, but even the greatest minds of our time are humble enough to leave questions next to their answers. The thing that surprises me most in the forums here is the level of confidence most seem to have. That is why I can’t call myself an atheist, but not a believer either. I’ve never been foolish enough to believe anything with such confidence.
When X contradicts Y, you can be 100% certain (no doubt) that at least one of them is false.
When the Christians tell us their god is omnipotent, then they tell us we have freewill; we can be 100% certain (no doubt) that at least one of those statements is false.
Not only will you find Atheists that have confidence that deities aren’t real is Christians thinking without a doubt their “skyfather” is real and they don’t care about evidence. You could prove a Christian wrong and they’d still believe in it.
I myself am open to the idea of a deity existing should it ever be proven with “real court based” evidence. I cannot go off of unsubstantiated superstitious claims. Which is why I’m an Atheist. I cannot believe in something that is unproven to exist.
You make science sound like it’s a blind faith system and it’s not. It’s about finding empirical, objective, and demonstrative evidence to back up claims.
Then what are you? It’d be easier if you just declared said belief here instead of beating around the bush. You come off like a Christian. Which is it?
Level of confidence? I keep an open mind and all I ask is evidence or proof.
Yet you maintain a very high level of confidence on an unproven and untestable super-galactic intelligence that has immense powers and can do almost anything. With absolutely zero evidence or proof to support this wild story, you can have constructed this wild narrative about a super-being, and you want to talk about confidence?
This is just not true, and neither are the other claims being said about me. I am not a Christian nor do I suggest with any amount of confidence or authority that god exists. The only Thing I’m trying to point out is that if we aren’t sure, then we shouldn’t be sure.
The problem I find myself struggling with is calling myself an atheist implies I do not believe in god. I suppose it’s true that I don’t believe in god existing as fact, but because I don’t have any evidence against it then I leave enough room for the possibility.
Science is tricky because there is always room for doubt. Science used to say the earth was flat, and it wasn’t until new technology and a different way of thinking emerged that it was shown to be round. So shouldn’t we take a similar approach to ALL things? Science suggests that matter as we know it only constitutes like 1% of the known universe. We can sense that something else is there but can’t define it to any kind of degree. We call this dark matter. And there have been many quantum scientists over the years that suggest the dark matter might actually be something in a higher dimension and we’ll never know what it truly is.
So I just don’t understand what all this fuss is about. I’m not suggesting a lack of evidence is evidence of god, simply that the things we do know about the universe leaves plenty of room for god.
When did that happen? 
Sound like an urban legend.
Just gotta comment…. The “doubt in science” is a sliver as in incompleteness AS IN can be added to, expanded, built upon… (note - my own definition).
Evolution - fact
Virus and germs - fact
Round earth - fact
Gravity - fact
This “3 D” is what is called “reality”. Physical fucking reality - anything “outside of what is real” is called imagination. Reality trumps imagination. I can imagine flying like superman. LSD may increase the imagination of flight. Physical jumping from a building??? 3D reality will shit on the imagination.
The only thing that matters is matter… 
That’s how Atheists feel when Christians come on here running their mouths about their “skyfather” being real.
What evidence is there to support that “God” or “Jesus” or “Allah” or “Horus” or “Vishnu” or “Odin” is real? None what so ever.
Christopher Hitchens stated that if it can be asserted without evidence then it can be dismissed without evidence. Well, the Bible is a claim and it’s assertions have no evidence. I happily dismiss it.
That sounds like an individual problem.
Christians don’t believe in the other pagan deities. They dismiss them. In other words, if they’re wrong and those deities exist. They’re going to hell in all of those religions like they so adamantly go around telling Atheists and everyone else that we’re going to hell. Fuck them and their superstitious bullshit. No one wants to hear it.
Claim. The flat earth theory was just bullshit and still is. Scientists never made it up. It was just a misconception people had like they still do with what? You guessed it. Religion like Christianity and Islam. That’s okay, science will prove religion wrong in time as well like it’s been doing.
Blockquote The idea of a spherical Earth appeared in ancient Greek philosophy with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most pre-Socratics (6th–5th century BC) retained the flat Earth model. In the early 4th century BC Plato wrote about a spherical Earth, and by about 330 BC his former student, Aristotle, had provided strong empirical evidence for this.
If it can be asserted without evidence it can also be dismissed without evidence. Science will explain it in time as it has always done so. Accept that not having an answer is not a bad thing. Just because you don’t have the answers doesn’t make you devoid of intelligence. Christians and other Theists think that having all the “easy” answers makes them wise. When in fact it makes them look stupid.
That makes you an atheist (presumably an agnostic atheist) by the definitions used by every atheist/agnostic organization I’ve ever been associated with (and every philosophy and theology professor I’ve ever met); including AR.
It isn’t uncommon for atheists (and others) to come here and try to redefine atheism as to exclude themselves (because the word has been so demonized) and to try to alter it in such as way as to make the atheist position on the question of gods existence into an unreasonable position that only a lunatic could hold. I hope that isn’t what you are here for.
A sad story I often repeat: I was working late on Saturday night, and the wife of my boss at the time asked me about my beliefs. I told her I was an atheist. Her response went something like: *I understand why you think god isn’t real, I think god isn’t real also; by why you would want to be an atheist is beyond me; you seemed like such a nice person. I’m sure I don’t need to tell the other atheists that my position was removed from the org chart (I lost my job) by Monday morning.
Christianity is a religion of LOVE. WTF are you talking about?
Well… Unless you are one of those asshole Atheists that bear bad fruit… " 1. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned “with unquenchable fire.” [Matthew, 3:10, 12] 1. Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” [Matthew, 7:19]
Or just one of “most people.” It really does not matter because most believers are going to end up in hell too. " 1. Jesus says that most people will go to hell. [Matthew,
7:13-14]
Love love love, Jesus and the bible are all about love…
But if you wanna have love, YOU GOTTA BREAK A FEW EGGS: 1. Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” [Matthew, 10:34-36]
And keep breaking the FUCKING EGGS until people get the point! 1. Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. [Matthew, 11:20-24]
After all…
He that is not with me is against me." [Matthew, 12:30]
It’s all about LOVE!
